Husband says he is embarrassed by our adult kids

[TudorMary]

This is my first post and it’s long and has a few strands and don’t know where to start I keep rewriting.

I thought we were happy and husband was a good father. Kids no longer go on holiday with us etc and this upsets my husband.

Three kids. Elder 2 definitely took scenic route. Dropped out of uni, now happily working, 2 initially took science, failed 1st year exams, took year out now finishing 2nd year of Humanities degree at local university. Both live at home along with number 3 who last week came home to say she was convinced she had failed one of her papers, I think this is correct having done big of research which means she won’t get first choice and she now wants year off.

My husband has gone fucking ballistic and has gone from blaming me to blaming himself for not standing up to me. He has called all the kids losers but thankfully not to their faces but has said to daughter she will have to go to whatever uni will have her.

Now if you are with me! Husband close to brother and I actually like him and his wife but only when we meet them alone. When the kids were younger I used to have anxiety every time we saw them with kids. They had tons of them. It was chaotic. Litter on the floor. Debris everywhere. Rotting food the lot. Kids were sworn in front of, occasionally sworn at, if a risqué anecdote had to be told it was told no matter if the kids were around. and spoken at like they were 30. No concessions were ever made for their age.

First time we went out a four year old actually summoned a waiter to order another fizzy drink. Two year old given a knife to cut their birthday cake. I was on tenterhooks and no exaggeration sometimes took to my bed after seeing them.

Well every single one of their older children are either at medical school, are studying or graduated from an Oxbridge College.

My husband is now suggesting sister-in-law is parent of the year and he should have stood up to my prissy ways. A bone of contention is that they all still holiday together whereas our kids don’t want to know. He is embarrassed by our beautiful kids.

I am so sorry this is a novel. I am heartbroken thinking I must have done something wrong.

It sounds like your husband is criticising your 18 year old for not living up to his expectations. I mean Christ, she’s basically still a child.

I’m the only person in my family (including 20 cousins!) to have been to university at all. I started a course at 18, dropped out of it, went back at 22 and completed my degree, PGCE and then MEd. Sometimes the timing just isn’t right, or god forbid at 18/19 you don’t quite know what you’re doing with your life.

My life isn’t any more valuable because of those qualifications, and my sister isn’t a failure for not having them. It wasn’t her “bag” and it was mine.

As long as my family is happy, healthy and able to manage life independently, that’s what counts. “Success” doesn’t mean the same thing for everyone, and neither does the path to getting there.

Tbh all parents have their own fixations. OP's was probably what was "proper" (what's wrong with speaking to a child like a 30 year old? Is ordering fizzy drinks or cutting cake that swoon-inducing?), and cleanliness. The good news is, OP, your kids probably are very well mannered/rule abiding and clean!

My mother's was cleanliness and money. She couldn't care less how we did in school, or if we even went to school, as long as the house was obsessively clean (although she'd deny it and call her standards normal) and the bank balance was sparkling.

We had the messy, clever genes — without having flipped open a revision book, and with doing my homework being a foreign concept to me, I scored straight into multiple competitive schools others worked themselves to the bone to gain entry to.

Other parents had different obsessions, especially given the high achieving school environments I was in. I'd definitely have thrived under anything from my aunt's (tiger mum) to my classmates' parents' (edifying, educational, cultured, inspiring) parenting.

The harsh truth is you get what you invest in. My cousins and many of my classmates were actually not that bright. But they soared with support and structure.

I didn't thrive under my mum's non parenting in that aspect, always in massive trouble academically (yet flying by the seat of my pants to randomly score top in exams which didn't need studying, which I think is what made the school not intervene), and eventually became a uni dropout. My mum cannot accept or understand why none of her super bright (as recognised by teachers, the outside world, etc at a young age) kids have thrived academically. Her judgment annoys me as she simply cannot see that as a parent, you get what you invest time and energy in.

It doesn't matter years down the road now though. The opportunities we all have in early life differ, but resilience, self awareness and enjoying what you do is the most important thing. Life is a long road and we will only have ourselves on it long after our parents are sadly gone.

You've raised them and they're adults now they need to figure out their path and it'll take a few goes and a few mistakes to get there.
You seem very judgy about how sil runs things and a bit bitter that her kids seem to be doing OK despite the chaos so you're thinking why aren't mine because you thought you did things so much better than her.
Just sit back and let the kids get on with it.

“…instead of making them eat in kitchen, load dishwasher, wipe sides and and mop floor Basic standards that took five minutes I should have been reading The Guardian and doing cryptic crossword with them,”

This comment struck me as significant here. Did your husband also do his share domestically or was it just the children’s job? I’m often amazed on MN of this notion that children, who didn’t ask to be born, MUST share domestic chores despite the man of house (it’s often revealed) doing sweet FA. Maybe your in-laws, much like we did, expected our children to focus on school and their future. Not wiping down the kitchen.

Are your DC happy and healthy? Are they kind, honest, hard-working, independent, capable people? If they possess most of these qualities I would be very proud of them. Seems your DH wants to give you all the credit for their accomplishments.

I am related to two young men who dropped out of university, one eventually completed a different degree. They are the best, most-involved, supportive husbands and fathers of my acquaintance.

Wanting to holiday without their parents is not unusual for young adults.

The main characteristic of good parenting, taking away the emotional part of it is whether children are/were raised to become independent adults. Independent emotionally, intellectually, financially.

Your child wants to take a year off. Fine, they might indeed need it but what will they do during this year? If it is to work 50h a week, save every penny, and spend 6 months travelling learning about cultures etc...whilst being prepared to be back at Uni and studying hard the following year or starting a career, great.

If it's to spend 6 months doing nothing, wasting their time just having fun, whilst mum and dad pays everything and then travelling expecting all of it to be financed by mum and dad and come back not having a clue what they then want to do and have no plans, then yes, I think there was a parental failures somewhere along the line.

Your husband has had a pretty easy life if his issues are
Child 1 - has a job in a different area to initially planned
Child 2 - didn't suit initial uni course so changed to a different one
Child 3 - possibility they may need to do clearing after a level results.

There are much worse things parents are dealing with.

Unclench

"Two year old given a knife to cut their birthday cake."
Two isn't a baby! No detail was given on the actual knife or curcumstances. If a two year old was given a meat cleaver and the birthday cake was in an abandoned hut in the woods. Sure that's a problem. If the birthday cake was on a restaurant table and the child was using an appropriate knife under supervision of adults, that's normal.

"Kids were sworn in front of, occasionally sworn at, if a risqué anecdote had to be told it was told no matter if the kids were around."
Some people think words are just words. Some families are sweary. Some families are more open and don't want to artificialy shield their kids from life. Some people think it's reasonable to swear in front of kids who've heard it all in the playground and know not to repeat in front of their teacher.

"Cat excrement in their house"
No mention of circumstances. If actually on the floor, was it picked up in a reasonable timescale? Or was there a litter tray on the floor that was in use?

They didn't give a knife to a baby, they let a 2 year old cut it's own birthday cake with adults on hand (clearly the adults were there or OP wouldn't have seen it). My DS used to help his childminder cut up veg for lunch with a proper knife.

They swore in front of kids or told risqué anecdotes - we've got no idea what OP sees as swearing or as risqué. She takes to her bed after an afternoon with family so maybe something very mild. Someone wrote and complained about swearing in my local newsletter - the swearing was 'what the hell'.

And OP says there was cat shit everywhere but hasn't said it wasn't in litter trays - not cleaning litter trays is still gross to me but it's not the same as having shit on floors and furniture.

OP clearly has rigid ideas about behaviour and housework standards and we've only got her view of how bad the IL house was. To someone who's mad about cleaning and manners something in normal range looks like a tip.

The second kid did one year of a course, dropped out and had a year out, then started uni again. So is still being supported by his/her parents at 21ish with another two years to go. Maybe it's a generational thing but my parents would have had absolutely no truck with paying for us to live at home into our mid-20s while we fannied about deciding what to do with our lives. I am a single mum so don't intend on supporting my kids through five years of university (unless they planned on doing a medical degree, which mine definitely won't) and they'd need to have a really good reason for dropping out. Otherwise they can get jobs and start supporting themselves/contributing to the household. There seems to be quite a wide expectation now - in real life as well as on MN - that parents are now financially and emotionally responsible for their kids their entire lives, instead of just until they reach adulthood.

Hmm who would I rather share a house with or have as a colleague? Someone with life skills who can consider others and clean after themselves or some hapless medic with a high tolerance for cat shit?

Your husband is weird to think your adult children should be going on holiday with you. They're adults. He's also weird to be embarrassed by his kids' university paths etc.

You do, if I'm being honest, sound quite prissy.

I'm wondering whether there's more to this than you've conveyed in your post. I don't see why your husband would be annoyed about his kids' career paths and or holiday preferences, which seem perfectly normal. But it's interesting that they all still live at home, including the one who works and the one who is at university. Does he maybe feel that your kids are less resilient/mature than their cousins? Because the level of stress you apparently experienced at kids potentially hearing 'a risky anecdote', cutting their own birthday cake or being allowed to order 'another fizzy drink' suggests to me that you might have been a bit uptight and over-protective with your kids.

You're very judgy. Tone it down. If your kids are happy, that's all that matters!

I'm really shocked by your DH's attitude, OP. I have one DC at Oxbridge, one who dropped out of university. I don't judge or make comparisons. They are both lovely and I love them. Life is tough for young people these days and they are both dealing with it in the best way they can.

Having children isn't a competitive sport. Who cares what your brother-in-law's children are like? Your DH should celebrate the children he's got every day.

DH needs to get his head out of his ass. He sounds similar to my dad. Always pushed and pushed that we had to go to university to be successful bla bla bla. My poor younger brother got the brunt of it as he was apparently lazy, dossing around and useless. Said brother actually now has a masters. He earns more than me, has travelled the world and has better earning potential. Recently diagnosed as ADHD in adulthood and just took a little while longer to get to where he wanted to be than I did.

Academia has its place in life but isn't for everyone, it doesn't even need to be started at 18. The fact that your DH can't celebrate your children's achievements because in his eyes they haven't lived up to his expectations is sad. In all honesty I don't think I could be with someone like that who places a humans worth on their education level.

I would imagine your children have heard whilst growing up that they had to be degree educated. Absolutely felt the pressure and have buckled under that. Instead of having a father gently coaching from the sidelines and helping advise on a alternatives should the direction they are going in need a bit of support.

I would find your husband’s attitude infuriating in your shoes. Not only because he’s embarrassed by your children and calling them losers but because all their collective “failures” have apparently got nothing to do with him as as an equal parent to you, it’s apparently solely your “fault” they don’t live up to his rather narrow minded standards of success.

Begs the question really why he wants to go on holiday with any of you as you’re all so inferior to him.

What if one of these imaginary people was well-informed about the state of the world, funny and relaxed, and had a high degree of self reliance and problem-solving skills, but the other one was resentful, judgemental, prone to obsessively compare themselves to others and took it as a personal insult if someone used a word they didn't understand? Hypothetically. I'd still hire a cleaner.

Every child shines 8n their own way…….and I’m puzzled as to why your OH can’t accept any responsibility in the bringing up of the children……or were they immaculate conception births.

My father made it clear I was a disappointment at various stages throughout my life. Guess what? He was projecting like mad, being a lazy and emotionally abusive under-achiever himself. Anything your kids achieve should be for THEMSELVES, not because their parents need validation.

I don’t think that either of you sound much fun to be on holiday with, to be honest.

judgy you, with, it sounds high expectations of a clean house (it doesn’t take 5 mins to wash the floor wipe the sides) and judgy dad ;although I would quietly be disappointed in my children if they kept dropping out.

when they are older, kids can choose (or not) to go on holiday with parents.

woukd you be the fun parents, trying cocktails and all going on the inflatable bananas and booking a tennis court ? Or woukd you be the judgy ones, making sure the villa is pristine, giving the side eye at a second glass of wine?

SIL and BIL's home sounds a bit chaotic, but it also sounds like the children were given the tools and space to become independent and self-motivated. If they wanted a clean space, they had to clean up, if they wanted a drink, they ordered it, if they wanted a slice of cake, they cut it. They learned to communicate as adults from a young age.

It's clearly worked out well for them.

It does sound as though DH is having trouble coming to terms with the fact his children aren't as academically successful as his brother's children, but this could just be down to their natural ability or interests. If it is that you've babied them too much, then that's just as much on him as on you.

Well Tbf, when you look at what loans you can get when at Uni, it IS still based on parents salary. And parents are expected to make up for the shortfall if the student doesn’t get the full loan.

So yes the expectation that parents will continue to support the child after they reach 18yo is now the norm. (Whether people can is a whole different discussion).

EDIT TO ADD
The same idea applies re PIP, UC etc..changes where young people wouldn’t be allowed to get some financial support until they are 22yo etc… too.

Not really sure where these lists of traits are derived from or whether your point is that the list beginning relaxed etc is, or is not, more likely to apply to an Oxbridge graduate or medic…

Your children, and nieces/nephews, are at the very start of their adult lives - who knows whose jobs in the future will be the most secure/fulfilling/well paid, who will have the happiest relationships and friendships etc. There is no one template for what a 'successful life' means. So your husband is being unreasonable.

However, related to this, there are many different ways that a happy family home can be. And so I think you are being unreasonable in basically implying that the messiness of your relative's home means you would have expected your children to have done better than theirs. It's a generalisation, but as with several PPs I agree that the more academic families I know do tend to have the messier homes! (I'm one of them). My (very non-academic) SIL and BIL keep an immaculate home - they spend a lot of time and effort cleaning and maintaining it and it shows. That's not a priority for us in the same way. I think they do judge us a bit. We both have young children and who knows what the future holds for them, but our approach to parenting is very different and I think that will have more impact on our children than how often we hoover and dust.

I come from a large family all of whom have had families, and I can tell you - looking at this extensive test group - that there's very little correlation between academic achievement and worldly success and emotional happiness. Each of those three is on a completely independent scale, unless you yourself choose to hook one up to another.

Also - as we're on it - extensive use of, or controlled access to, computer games appears to have no effect either way on any of the above.