New abortion laws

[Cheesetoastie537]

TW

I'm pro choice but the new potential abortion law changes feel a bit extreme to me. If I've understood right, if a woman was even in late stage of pregnancy (even say 35 weeks) could self abort the pregnancy and not face any charges for the death of a viable baby. I thought the 24 week mark was there for that reason. I know a woman still can't get a medically assisted abortion after 24 weeks (unless certain circumstances) but surely they'll just go home and do it now because theres nothing preventing them. No one should be in that situation surely. But if it was a case that a late pregnancy is now not wanted but a medically assisted abortion is not available and the woman knows they can do it themselves with no charges, wouldn't that just increase self done abortions?

If anything, shouldn't the law just change so that medical abortion at any stage is allowed then to at least make it safe for woman rather than them attempting a self abortion.

I'm not sure if the change in law opens up more issues than it fixes. And in part I feel that there's no protection for late pregnancies that the baby would have survived and now there's no legal charges for their life.

I've never really thought too much about abortion otherthan pro choice and felt the UK had a good middle ground.

Hopefully we never have to. But if so see you on the front line 💪

It’s a monstrous change. Harmful to women as well as babies.

It’s also v likely to lead to a much more polarised debate on abortion, more like the US- with attendant risk to more reasonable abortion rights.

Was pleased to see Kathleen Stock speaking out about all this.

I’m shocked. Imo women who terminate healthy, viable if born right now babies should be prosecuted. By late on you can feel the baby moving and it would likely survive outside the womb. The law should protect these unborn children. If by that stage you don’t want what would likely be a healthy baby, then give it up for adoption. I’m sure there are loads of couples out there who would happily take on your baby. Imo the law should stay as is.

Agree it will lead to a more polarised debate which under a more conservative , right wing government, which seems inevitable the way things are going, could end up completely removing a woman’s choice. It should be left as is ….a can of worms not worth opening

Very much disagree. It’s not fair to label an opinion as misogyny just because it’s not inline with your way of thinking. It’s a difficult subject because yes I do think women’s rights should be strongly protected, but there is a line. 35 weeks is a fully formed human being - there needs to be some legality protecting that child at that stage.

I was wondering how long it would be before the old "give it up for adoption" came about.

You do realise a woman can't unilaterally decide to give a baby up for adoption, right?

Considering how much abuse starts in pregnancy how many men do you think would take the baby just to control the mum?

Of course you can be. I’m pro choice but that doesn’t mean anything goes.

killing a baby after birth is not acceptable. Killing it the day before birth is also in my mind not acceptable. Doesn’t mean I’m not pro choice. I just think there are limits to what constitutes an acceptable abortion and killing a live baby who happens to be inside the woman’s body.

i am horrified you would support abortion at any stage for any reason under the banner of ‘it’s the woman’s choice’ including up until the minute prior to birth

so self abortion the minute before birth is acceptable to you? But that one minute later when it is out if the woman it’s not acceptable to kill it?

What did Stock say? I can't access her Twitter

@TheNightSurgeon nothing justifies murdering an innocent, viable baby in my eyes.

Its actually embarrassing how often this comes up.

Who do you think is "self aborting" one minute before birth?

Honestly, who is going to do that?

But yes, despite the fact it would never happen, for a myriad of reasons, I support abortion up to the second before birth, because I support women to make choices for themselves.

Good job abortion isn't murder then, so we are all good.

👏👏👏

Keeping a baby alive after birth has absolutely no effect on the woman’s right to decide what goes on with her own body. Insisting that a fetus is kept alive does mean pregnant women have fewer rights over their own bodies than anyone else. It really isn’t a stretch to say that people who believe women shouldn’t have the right to decide what happens to their own bodies are misogynistic.

Anyway, as has been explained - the primary effect of this law is to ensure that women who miscarry aren’t investigated by the police. Thank goodness.

It’s sickening.

Thank you for explaining the right wing view of women's rights so succinctly.

Another sofa sitter for the poll makes me #4(?)

Re abortion: liberal feminist groups once again demonstrating they can't be trusted on protecting interests of young when viewed in straight competition with interests of mothers. All that handwringing about potential prosecution, as if only or most pressing moral issue here. Grim.

.[in relation to a comment about how the change might benefit women because women suffering miscarriage won’t be investigated] I could be wrong but i feel like this misses out a crucial element of the whole late pregnancy scenario. It's small, viable, cries a lot, will smile at you within a few weeks, is capable of pain and suffering, attachment... what's it called again?…

The more I think about this quote from BPAS, the more batshit it gets. Laws always carry with them the possibliity of wrongful prosecution, we don't take that as a reason to repeal! Let's get rid of rape law: no more desperate men falsely accused, dragged from beds in middle of night... What??

She also RTs Nikki Da Costa on the risks the change in the law pose to women.

I'd really prefer abortion legislation to be considered as a stand alone issue, rather than as an amendment to a wider crime bill. As far as I'm aware, there haven't been many changes in England since the original 1967 legislation but medical science, society and attitudes have moved highly since then
Does today's decision impact Northern Ireland, where the abortion limit is 12 weeks?

A near term baby deserves protection. This amendment is barbaric.

The thing that would need to be tightened up is the threat of coercion on women near full term. You could see a scenario of a partner who would want the pregnancy ended who would have attacked the woman (Stuart worby https://www.cps.gov.uk/east-england/news/man-who-spiked-orange-juice-force-miscarriage-convicted, countless cases of men attacking women) would instead coerce their partner into terminating it herself. Same effect, with added gaslighting that absolves him from any responsibility for ending it.

The list of ayes and noes isn't out yet but will be interesting to see who voted against. Justice sec Shabana Mahmood spoke out against it

Re abortion: liberal feminist groups once again demonstrating they can't be trusted on protecting interests of young when viewed in straight competition with interests of mothers.

Feminism centres women. Not the unborn, not men, not politicians. If your feminism isn't centring women, it isn't feminism.

if you think abortion of a full term, full size infant one minute prior to birth is the woman’s right but one minute later would be murder then we are so far apart on the ethical scale that there is not really any scope for communication

?? Im replying to the person who wanted to know what Kathleen Stock said. I’ve just quoted her tweets.

Once again, you are not pro-choice if you have caveats.

As early as possible, as late as needed, for whoever needs it.

Where do you draw the line then?

OK at 23 weeks, 6 days and 23 hours, but not at 24 weeks? How is that so different?

I'll ask again though, who do you think will be having an abortion 1 minute before birth? And why do you people always rake that out as some kind of 'gotcha'?