To think 70% of people shouldn’t be in A&E

[PrettyPleaseXo]

Recently I was admitted in excruciating pain to A&E due to kidney stones. Over the time I was there it got progressively busier as expected and there was corridor care (I was stuck in a corridor without pain relief and crying in pain for two hours) and ambulances backed up out the door.

When I was discharged and went back out through the A&E reception/wait room I couldn’t help but notice
that 80% of the people sat there looked perfectly fine, chatting etc and didn’t appear to be in either an accident or emergency.

AIBU to think that unless you’re seriously unwell, in acute pain or have an injury that needs immediately addressing you should be turned away from A&E and told to go
to the GP instead?

We had an out of hours like that. But, they closed it. Despite it always being rammed and over used.

never had the questionable fella turn up at the door! Was he like a St John’s ambulance?

I don't think he was St John's Ambulance. He was doing doing some nhs training course and they were swamped so they sent all the trainees out! He was on his own, it was very strange.

Actually I have just checked - he was a Community First Responder from the St John's Ambulance service. I know this because I remembered i wrote to my mp about something around service from the nhs and I mentioned it, and I just found the email. I wonder if they still do this. It was 2015.

The A&E time wasters is a trope that has been around for years. It’s especially beloved of the daily mail and other right wing rags but is essentially bollox.

When the Looney Lansley reforms were introduced a group of local GPs thought that they could do better A&E triage, so a portacabin was found for them to try. Reader the experiment failed. GPs being thorough, single minded and experienced managed to admit more patients than junior Drs who were following orders. The patients may have been safer but the emergency admissions targets were missed by a mile.

The truth is that people don’t go to A&E for shits and giggles (although some could do without quite so many family members). They go because they are sick, injured, in pain, having a mental health crisis, need care, need love & need adequate homes.

It is shameful that successive governments have decimated the services that used to prop people up and are then blaming the victims of their stupidity for its consequences.

They really do. On more than one occasion I have seen extended family members accompanying the patient - snacks, drinks, books and games. One patient had 7, 7! other family members with them. They really did treat it as an exciting outing 🤦‍♀️

you say that pain in itself is not a reason to present to A&E

No, I said it's not an emergency. I also said anyone was welcome to go to A&E, OP and your good self included.

I disagree with you, and you are still trying to argue with me

Are you not accustomed to people disagreeing with you once you have spoken? That's how a discussion goes, usually.

I have presented to A&E with chronic pain that I am unable to get under control, and many other people have.

Good job, sincerely hope it helped. What would you like me to do with that information about your choices?

GP’s won’t prescribe morphine IV so the only option is to go to A&E (GP’s own words).

All jolly good, and true. This is a valid route to treatment, as dictated by the system. You should go. Still not an emergency.

at least I don’t say they shouldn’t be at A&E as their pain isn’t worthy of treatment

I should hope not, that's unprofessional and not your place to say. I haven't said this either, in fact quite the opposite. Please, absolutely do go to A&E if you feel it's necessary - pain is still a valid reason to go to A&E, it's just not an emergency in and of itself. OP is the one judging you for why you're there, not me.

I think ED is a bit of a stretch for going to A&E. You can even buy pills for it on the internet now like my DH does.

Pills for Eating Disorder on the internet?

Think poster is a bit confused and thinking Erectile dysfunction.

This is likely accurate for some people, but definitely not all.

The reality is that for a lot of people the GP wait times are absolutely crazy. In some cases the person's condition wouldn't get worse with a wait, but a lot of people's would.

A GP receptionist can't reliably judge what is urgent or not when a patient likely doesn't know either.

I nearly died of sepsis due to my gallbladder. I had to wait weeks for an appointment despite the fact that I was passing out from the pain and throwing up for hours. By the time I got to my GP appointment I could barely walk and was rushed straight to hospital where they operated.

I wish I hadn't waited for that GP appointment and instead had taken myself to hospital. I would have avoided emergency surgery, 6 days in hospital and terrifying all my loved ones.

I've never spoken rudely to any medical staff, ever. And I don't condone rudeness, but people who are more quiet and don't advocate for themselves enough can be in life threatening situations due to the current wait times.

And you may say I should have realised it was a situation that deserved A&E and I was stupid to wait... But we hear about time wasters so often that I was scared of being one.

We are told to patiently wait for GP appointments and not to fill up A&E... But it doesn't really stop the attention seekers, it just stops those who are scared of doing the wrong thing.

There's a balance somewhere, but the current system isn't it.

Yes I was going to say the same. My friend ended up In a&E on Sunday and it was really quiet. She mentioned it to the staff and they said it’s because it was Father’s Day so most people had something going on!

My MIL spent 48 hours in A&E over New Year's Day, so that theory isn't valid as I'm sure most people have something better to do on NYD! It was absolutely heaving, with ambulances parked up outside into the road and people on trolleys in the corridors.

Well it was the staffs theory @taxguruand I think they are better placed than you or I to make that judgement call.

Nhs staff are notorious for patient blaming!

Of course the big question is where would those 70% go instead?

I was the same as you. Bleeding internally from a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. I was in agony but carried on, when I eventually went to a GP and he said he was going to call an ambulance I said that was a bit dramatic and got dh to drive me instead 😳. I collapsed outside the door of A&E, lost almost half of my blood and nearly died because I didn't want to waste people's times with stomach pain. Like you say it sounds stupid but it happens.

I will never hesitate to seek help again and always encourage others to do the same. The consequences of not doing it can literally be life or death.

I’ve today tried to contact my gp surgery.

Can’t get through on the phone and it’s just a recorded message saying they’ve reached capacity for the day. Try again tomorrow or ring 111 or go to a&e.

so they can’t be surprised if people do as they’re told and go to a &e.

our village has doubled in size in the last few years. The number of Gps has got less as not replaced one when they retired 🤷🏻‍♀️

A few years ago, DS had an ear infection that hadn't cleared up after a course of anti biotics. The Dr said to go back if it was no better after the antibiotics. For 3 days I called the GP surgery as soon as the phone lines opened, waited in a queue for 40 min/until appointments for the day ran out (having to be late - and make up time - for work each time) on day 3 we gave up and went to a walk in centre attached to a hospital. We waited for an hour, saw a GP who prescribed sone different antibiotics and all was fine.
We were lucky to have that facility available (it was a 20 min drive away v 10 minute walk to GP surgery) but it was a lot of time and effort for a pretty simple issue.
If the problem had got worse and I couldn't access the walk in centre I guess we might have ended up in A and E.

Where as i live in a mid sized city, i called at 8.10 becuase i missed the 8am rush, had an appointment for 8.45, and it ended up being far more complex than initially thought, i was at the GP 2.5 hours, saw the dr, then a HCA for ecg and obs, then back to the GP who referred me, then called me an hour after i got home to add on more investigations, its definitely luck of the draw as it where you live.

I also live in a mid sized city: 8am phone call, 13th queue, told ‘no appointments’. Next day, 8am phone call, 17th in queue, told ‘no appointments’. And if you’re lucky enough to get an ‘appointment’ this will consist of you having to sit with your phone until they call and then arranging an appointment after the 1st appointment. I’ve had the 1st appointment as late as 3:45pm. And entire day waiting for the phone call (and unable to work) to then tell me to turn up at the surgery at 4:30.

Yet apparently it's ok for doctors receptionist to diagnose health in the other thread lol

I feel your pain OP.
I also attended AE for kidney stones...the pain was terrible. There were lots of people in the waiting who didn't look ill/ in pain but there were a few who did. Me being one. Thankfully I didn't have to wait too long. My sister who was with me said I looked terrible so maybe that and the constant vomiting got me in quicker

Well, why don’t you have a go at OP? If anyone is an armchair diagnostician, OP is!

I didn’t start the thread, where OP can apparently diagnose 70% of people at A & E as time wasters; when there’s been a zillion threads already on groups of people laughing, eating, etc along with one patient in A & E?

Or is it, you just don’t like that I get to sit for 6 hours or more in A & E with a doctor, who does have 10 years of training and experience in dealing with patients, has worked with the staff there, and can make some actual diagnoses?

I had to call 999 between 1 - 3 times a week to DD1, who can die at any time with a life threatening condition; and we spent 100s of hours, watching time wasters in A & E. I can’t be bothered to start threads about it, because as the said doctor tells us, people have lost the ability to self monitor and treat minor conditions with OTC drugs. What is needed is more education and posters frothing at the mouth on MN is not going to change the behaviour, until then.

Most are there because you cant even get to see a GP for 4 weeks in some areas thats the issue. If they had turned my mother away at A& E recently she would have died, although she was also able to chat while waiting.