Still in nappies at school

[ivehearditallthistime]

As the title says some children at 4-5 and 6 years old are going to school in nappies and are still not potty toilet trained.
I understand that some will and still have accidents at night and during the day.

But to have a child at that age still in nappies is just laziness.
It is not a teachers job to change nappies is it.
Ive just got back from my sisters whos son has a 4&5 year old still in nappies the school said he or the mum will have to come in school to change them as the teachers will not.

They now think this is all wrong and it is the teachers job.
And are removing both kids from school one does half day and going to home school.
I said no its your job stop being so f=ing lazy if home schooling is anything like your potty training good luck.

My eldest sister a teacher agrees with it and said this is happing more and more now.
A mum in her school has taken her child out of school because teachers will not change her childs nappy hes almost 6.
Said mum had a rant at the school because the school reported it to SS.

Dose anyone agree this is just lazy parenting now.

Well this thread is very clearly not about children like your son. Surely you must know that? Lots of people have said "unless there's SN involved..."

Advice given around TT and about the impact of deferring a school place.

Anything more than that is interfering…especially here on MN!

My sister would say the same, 25 years aa a teacher working in early years ,now in a different role working with families
But her,knowledge base about autism is lacking at times.

Also disposable nappies are much more convenient and absorbent than the nappy options that were available 20, 30 years ago. My mum said she couldn’t wait for us to be out of nappies because it was a major hassle washing them all the time and they weren’t very good so lots of leaks and needed changing more regularly.

my 1st at 15 months / second at 18 months. 2010's....

Which wouldn't necessarily be diagnosed at four.

I think night time is understandable

To offer some reassurance, my 9 year old son goes to mainstream school and his TA's change him without any issues. He has an intimate care plan as well as an EHCP and they take such good care of him.

I started potty training our children the day after their second birthday. They didn't navigate their clothes or wipe themselves - I did that until they were old enough to do it. Many mums in my mother's generation started potty training when their little ones were 12 -18 months. Again, the little ones didn't have to wipe themselves etc until they were older. They don't have to learn everything at once when they are tiny!

Nope, not me!

I've taught many a child with additional needs, the whole range, in a very inclusive classroom. Worked extremely closely with parents so that every child developed in accordance with their developmental pathways, through well planned learning.

Vast experience, as part of professional teams, diagnosing ASD.

I understand how you feel - my LO is 4 next week too and while she is potty trained and goes to her plastic potty when it’s near her, she NEVER takes herself to the toilet and often still either forgets to tell us she needs to go or refuses to, which results in her having an accident. I don’t know why she does it because I KNOW she can tell us and take herself to the potty. Sometimes I think it’s because she doesn’t want to stop what she’s doing and go. She goes to a childminders and sometimes has an accident there too, but I really hope reception will be okay 🤞🏽 good luck to you and your LO!

And back in the days of playschool they had to be dry before they went as volunteers weren't changing nappies!

It was only the 1970s when children with disabilities were allowed to access an education, this was strengthened in 2001 with the SEN code of practice and reinforced by the EQ2010.

We had near neighbours with 2 disabled children when I was a kid, and they both went to school in the 60s. The younger one was the same age as me, and started at 5, same as I did. They went to a special school that I believe is still running in the borough I used to live in all these years later.

You don't remember the institutions and special needs schools around you? I'm nearly 60, I remember very young children who had Downs Syndrome and a couple years later had gone into residential care. A lot of children went into residential. A lot died. I can remember the children who would have had cerebral palsy and were condemned to do nothing because it was lumped in with LDs. The mantra now is inclusiveness.
My eldest GC went to school in nappies, she had a bowel condition and undiagnosed MPA. Our pediatric medical care, if not life threatening etc is very slow. The continence team won't get involved under seven. I had to argue with the teachers that it was a simple matter of if they could fulfil their medical policies. If they couldn't they needed to inform the Governors and Ofstead. It was suggested that she wasn't entitled to an education. Luckily I've enough knowledge to shut that down. Procedures, meds and the right diet, sorted things at around seven years old. My youngest GC hearing loss is only being sorted out because of Covid. I should imagine that other conditions will have the same delay. Or is moderate hearing loss also down to lazy parenting?

Yes but some children who were less capable just spent their days colouring in. The system was completely different. It isn't anyway comparable to today.

I do wonder how much childcare settings are an increasing part of the problem (as you say, they are not necessarily to blame as staffing is a nightmare). A colleague was recently venting to me having had a call from their nursery suggesting their 3 year old went back into pull-ups because he’d had an accident that day. They’d put in all the effort at home over a holiday to get as far as they had - he was generally dry but with the odd accident - and here was nursery basically undoing all that. He was just settling back in after the holiday and was probably distracted by activities/friends. Really disappointing, in my view, if some nurseries are making it harder for parents - they should be driving it as part of early years education.

Tbh unless it’s ur own kid I don’t really think you can have an opinion. It’s literally not anyone’s business

There is 2 kids in my sons class (reception) who mum put them in a pram and give them a dummy when picking them up from school 🫠🫠🫠🫠

I agree special needs access to education only became a right in the 70s but we are generally talking about the more significantly disabled children in those cases who even now would probably need special provision. Moderate to mild impairments who were sent to mainstream to muddle along as best they could and had the same requirement to be dry to go to school, often in classes of up to 50. Unsurprisingly they struggled. Non attenders would find the welfare officer on their doorstep.

I agree that current provision of support within mainstream is a significant issue and has struggled under austerity but that doesn’t explain the increase in children starting school in nappies which teacher friends were reporting before the pandemic. Its also not only children with SEN turning up in nappies.

The pandemic caused many issues but I’m not buying prolonged nappy use as one of them - if anything more time at home makes it easier. Whilst social isolation was a problem for real life socialisation for parents and children, in 2020 online information resources and communications was the norm for parents. The traditional calls to “mum” and “friends” about this potty training were perfectly possible, just as my phone calls to my distant mum were in the 90s.

Is now over four years since all provisions were lifted, unless there is a special need there has been time to catch up on potty training or start investigations into problems.

I really struggled to potty train my DD she had tuned 3 and was one of the last in her nursey group in nappies, thankfully her nursery were amazing and so supportive and would highlight when other children were using the toilet etc. but she only went 2 days a week so the onus was on me. She got there eventually but just because she was struggling wasn't a reason to stop - I tried so many different things before we cracked it. One thing I remember was searching online and seeing loads of articles online about potty training your child in a weekend and I wonder if peoples expectations of the process are different - I know it took us months!

Teachers and TA's can normally tell the children who have additional needs that mean they struggle with the toilet and lazy parents - I watched a parent make a big show of removing an smart watch from their reception age child as they were entering class in the morning (presumably because they had been told he couldn't wear it) but also complained that the teachers refused to change him.

Plenty of families had two working parents 20 years ago. We also had relatively inexpensive highly absorbent disposable nappies and pull-ups. Nurseries taking children in nappies and general societal acceptance of later training is what I think has changed.

Last week, DH (who is a TA) was working in reception and a little girl said she needed the toilet. She said she needed a poo so she needed him to wipe her bum.
He was the only adult in class and school policy is that men don't do personal care.

Parents clearly only did a partial job of toilet training.
Hopefully either the child sorted herself out or parents learned from the skiddy pants.

I used disposables and (shock horror) pull ups and still had them both potty trained in time for preschool. I did have the luxury of working very, very part time though so was able to do it slowly. I think it's a shift in culture, parents working full time, less social pressure to get them trained and a change in methods (waiting until they're "ready" and being told it can be done in 3 days)

Assuming no sen etc obviously

Like you said, some children are delayed and have needs. I don’t know why you’re so angry about that, as some children aren’t diagnosed until much later. You don’t know if this child just isn’t diagnosed yet. All three of my children were potty trained by 2 years old, but I don’t judge other children who aren’t.

Back in the day mum’s used to stay home with their children. Most mums have to work now

No one is expecting a teacher to change a nappy. It would be expected from the teaching assistants. Any SEN or disabled student that requires personal care is supported by teaching assistants.