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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ballymena

218 replies

Ablondiebutagoody · 10/06/2025 11:11

AIBU to think that this kind of unrest/attack is happening more frequently now? Or did I just not notice before?

NBU - Yes, it's more frequent
ABU - You didn't notice before

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Sofiewoo · 13/06/2025 15:54

@JHound And NI has a long history of sectarian violence so this is in the same ballpark. Hatred and violence towards the “Other”.
I would not want to be an ethnic minority living there. Just seems to be roaming lynch mobs.

This is a very uninformed and naive view of NI.

ChessorBuckaroo · 13/06/2025 15:55

deeahgwitch · 13/06/2025 14:31

I too would get rid of state faith schools in NI and that, as you write @ChessorBuckaroo would largely eradicate the segregation that starts young.
It would be amazing.

100%. Make faith schools private so the option is there, but the state should not be promoting segregation.

ChessorBuckaroo · 13/06/2025 16:02

Should have added in my first post; seeing houses having to display union jacks on their windows so as not to be attacked by these meatheads was a new low, which is saying something. Echoes of 1930s Nazi Germany.

I don't know ths exact situation in Ballymena over the current issue so cannot comment on the merits of any complaints, but nothing can justify those actions towards families. The knife culture that eastern Europeans took with them to a town not far from me I'm well informed on, so I do get the concerns that locals can have when something abhorrent has been imported, but setting things on fire and terrorising neighbours is not the way to go about things.

It's also deeply embarrassing (as if the backwardness of NI could be any more embarrassing). The Open will be held next month with Rory McIllroy (on the back of completing the four majors) back at home, and you'd hope it does not spill into that. The last time the Open was here the Orange Order were told not to disrupt the event with their marches (which thankfully were ultimately cancelled) and shame us in front of the world; in other words avoid this;

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/jul/03/portrush-the-open-championship-orange-parade-northern-ireland-golf

"The William King Memorial band start proceedings, followed in half‑hour slots by the Derryloran Boyne Defenders, Dunloy Accordion, Ballykeel Loyal Sons of Ulster and Moneyslane Flute Band. The Drumderg Loyalists will round things off from 9pm. The Sons of Ulster will then march to an Orange hall. There is naturally a comedic, ludicrous undertone to this in 2019 but when placed on the Open’s doorstep it is a horrendously embarrassing look.

American guests will probably look on with intrigue. What, though, of the thousands of Open fans from the predominantly Catholic Republic of Ireland?
To suggest Orange parades are intrinsically linked to paramilitary behaviour or directly incite violence would be hugely unfair but shows such as this represent a depressing throwback to a Northern Ireland beset by sectarian division.

Twenty-one years on from the Good Friday agreement, loyalists still mark William of Orange’s Boyne victory with anthems and bonfires, many of the latter featuring tricolour flags or effigies of the pope. This is about as far from an epitome of social inclusion as you could find.

It is the Northern Ireland that will not feature on advertising campaigns for one of the world’s biggest sporting events. It does not, either, on the Causeway Coast & Glens borough council’s what’s on guide for July alongside the Open, a maritime festival and food tours. Middle-aged men belting out The Sash does not tend to have a wider resonance. Sky Sports Golf will not deliver a special outside broadcast."

Portrush Orange parade gives the Open an embarrassing problem | Ewan Murray

The conclusion of the third round of this year’s Open will be greeted by flutes and drums in Portrush and a depressing look back to a Northern Ireland beset by sectarian division

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/jul/03/portrush-the-open-championship-orange-parade-northern-ireland-golf

Sofiewoo · 13/06/2025 16:03

ChessorBuckaroo · 13/06/2025 15:55

100%. Make faith schools private so the option is there, but the state should not be promoting segregation.

It’s not just faith though. Many people choose a faith school for its cultural teachings. I’m only just putting my oldest in primary school now and while I wouldn’t consider myself part of the divide I have decided on the “side” I was raised as for several reasons, 1; there is no local integrated school, 2; the catholic school performs better 3; I don’t want a unionist education culturally.

Really there needs to be a strong drive for more integrated schools and they should receive more funding in order to build them up. It’s a long term initiative and unfortunately that’s just not something the assembly can ever get off their arses and do.
Why care about educating our children when we could spend 3 years arguing about a flag?

JHound · 13/06/2025 16:09

Sofiewoo · 13/06/2025 15:54

@JHound And NI has a long history of sectarian violence so this is in the same ballpark. Hatred and violence towards the “Other”.
I would not want to be an ethnic minority living there. Just seems to be roaming lynch mobs.

This is a very uninformed and naive view of NI.

Ok.

JHound · 13/06/2025 16:12

placemats · 13/06/2025 00:13

Northern Ireland has the worst rates of violence against women per capita in Europe. If the alleged attackers were "local' white boys, that young girl would have been called a slut.

These attacks are racist and those doing them are bigots. It's disgusting. I left N Ireland when I was 20 and have absolutely no intention of going back to live there. There's far more tolerance in England and that's saying something (especially after the horrible crash in Gujarat and the nationality of the sole survivor).

I saw that about NI DV rates and wondered where all these men are then.

JHound · 13/06/2025 16:15

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 13/06/2025 11:52

So I’d not heard of Jeffrey Donaldson and have done a little googling …

Im also wondering where was the violence for what he is alleged to have done?

There does seem to be an acceptance of assault on women and girls by “our own” and not just NI.

These men and their supporters do not give one shit about women and girls

100% this.

Anzena · 13/06/2025 16:40

What's the bets on a United Ireland happening any time soon?

The triumphalism of the Orange Order and Loyalist parades is provocative IMV, and they are coming up very soon. I can clearly remember the shenanigans of the marchers demanding to proceed through Nationalist areas (in triumph, banging the mahoosive Lambeg drums) and all the horrible divisive and dangerous trouble that ensued.

I think it's creeping back. The Nationalist side appear to be quieter these days, but maybe they're happy now they have Michelle O'Neill as FM.

Neither side has gone away though you know. It's there under the surface at every turn just waiting to erupt again.

ComemosZanahorias · 13/06/2025 17:22

Not sure if it’s been covered on this thread already, but these deprived urban-ish PUL (Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist) areas (and also the Republican ones) tend to be controlled by paramilitary organised crime groups who are selling drugs and lending money and generally continuing to terrorise and intimidate the people they have grown up alongside. Moving people in who are in effect diluting their influence in their traditional stronghold/stranglehold areas is also a problem for them as it changes how easily they can carry on with what they are up to - although in general the PSNI turns a blind eye despite the poster campaign of the Dept of Justice around coercive control by paramilitaries (of women and young people).

To qualify, I live in East Belfast and work in community development in inner East deprived areas. We have a lot of women from migrant backgrounds accessing our service and some are becoming concerned that their boys (who grew up here and are at school with my own kids) are now being recruited by the paras - so maybe my local UVF hoods are a bit more equal opportunities than the ones in the rural towns. Certainly boys born here but with Polish names whose parents are known to and trusted by the paras are being approached to ‘work’ for them.

I agree with a PP that properly secular, fully integrated education is the way forward but it would take at least 25 years to see any material shift away from the ethno-religious division we have here.

I lived away for a long time and was so shocked to come back and find out that really nothing had changed since 1998 in terms of attitudes within the deprived PUL areas. My kids find it all totally hilarious and enjoy pretending not to understand why their pals hate catholics with such a passion to try and get them to unravel their ludicrous arguments.

PhilippaGeorgiou · 13/06/2025 17:23

Sofiewoo · 13/06/2025 15:54

@JHound And NI has a long history of sectarian violence so this is in the same ballpark. Hatred and violence towards the “Other”.
I would not want to be an ethnic minority living there. Just seems to be roaming lynch mobs.

This is a very uninformed and naive view of NI.

I'd be interested in knowing how so. You said yourself that you don't consider yourself part of the divide, yet have chosen a catholic school, at least in part, because you don't want you child to be learning unionism "culturally". So how are you not part of the divide? Are you saying there isn't sectarian violence; or roaming lynch mobs. Because right now it looks like there are both. The news may have focussed on Ballymena these few days, but theer are something like 100 attacks a year on RC religious sites, mainly churches. There are attacks on people in their homes. Marching season is a nightmare of fear. It is hard to see what is uninformed or naive about recognising that hatred and violence is endemic "culturally".

SlatternIsMyMiddleName · 13/06/2025 17:41

Went to work today, spoke to some people, came home. Managed to avoid any “roaming lynch mobs”.

Heading to the cinema later and grocery shopping tomorrow. Hope to avoid being lynched 🙄

and just in case @JHound is wondering, I work in one of the towns most recently in the news.

”roaming lynch mobs” my arse.

JHound · 13/06/2025 17:50

SlatternIsMyMiddleName · 13/06/2025 17:41

Went to work today, spoke to some people, came home. Managed to avoid any “roaming lynch mobs”.

Heading to the cinema later and grocery shopping tomorrow. Hope to avoid being lynched 🙄

and just in case @JHound is wondering, I work in one of the towns most recently in the news.

”roaming lynch mobs” my arse.

I am sure the ethnic minority families that had to flee their homes will be comforted by the news you have personally had no issues.

SlatternIsMyMiddleName · 13/06/2025 18:11

My point is not whether I had any issues, rather the use of the frankly ridiculous hyperbole of “roaming lynch mobs”.

Sofiewoo · 13/06/2025 19:14

PhilippaGeorgiou · 13/06/2025 17:23

I'd be interested in knowing how so. You said yourself that you don't consider yourself part of the divide, yet have chosen a catholic school, at least in part, because you don't want you child to be learning unionism "culturally". So how are you not part of the divide? Are you saying there isn't sectarian violence; or roaming lynch mobs. Because right now it looks like there are both. The news may have focussed on Ballymena these few days, but theer are something like 100 attacks a year on RC religious sites, mainly churches. There are attacks on people in their homes. Marching season is a nightmare of fear. It is hard to see what is uninformed or naive about recognising that hatred and violence is endemic "culturally".

It is hard to see what is uninformed or naive about recognising that hatred and violence is endemic "culturally".

Anyone who thinks this doesn’t actually live in NI, that’s the reality.

How does expressing the wish for a secular education make me “part of the divide”? That literally makes no sense.

Genevieva · 13/06/2025 19:18

These things come and go. Basically when people feel prosperous and have a sense of hope for the future (that they can get good jobs, one a house, enjoy being part of a community with shared interests and values etc) these things don’t happen. When the opposite is the case, they happen. These incidents are the street manifestation of underlying upset that has normally been brewing for a while. The thing that sparks them isn’t the actual cause. It’s more like the straw that broke the camel’s back.

PhilippaGeorgiou · 13/06/2025 19:54

Sofiewoo · 13/06/2025 19:14

It is hard to see what is uninformed or naive about recognising that hatred and violence is endemic "culturally".

Anyone who thinks this doesn’t actually live in NI, that’s the reality.

How does expressing the wish for a secular education make me “part of the divide”? That literally makes no sense.

But that isn't what you said though, is it? I wish for world peace. But it doesn't seem to be co-operating with me. You didn't answer the question. And there's a fair few people in Ballymena - or who were there until this week - who don't agree that hatred anbd violence are endemic "culturally".

Sofiewoo · 14/06/2025 05:26

PhilippaGeorgiou · 13/06/2025 19:54

But that isn't what you said though, is it? I wish for world peace. But it doesn't seem to be co-operating with me. You didn't answer the question. And there's a fair few people in Ballymena - or who were there until this week - who don't agree that hatred anbd violence are endemic "culturally".

It is what I said actually, if you read my comment before lashing out you will see the top reason I chose catholic education is because there is no option for integrated education.
The second was that it preforms better, and a small factor was the other schools locally are incredibly loyalist, have affiliated events with the British military and that’s not something I want around my children.
Honestly the nerve for you to suggest not wanting a very loyalist school for my child makes me hard of the problem is farcical.

You don’t even live in NI, you aren’t from here and you’re going to lecture me on being “part of the divide” when you barely understand what you’re talking about.

Thulpelly · 14/06/2025 05:40

Lavender14 · 10/06/2025 19:49

Absolutely this. At the end of the day if this happened then something has gone deeply wrong that the intervention needed to prevent this didn't happen and children were not stopped from hurting other children. We've no idea what trauma these boys have been through - gang raping at 14 is not normal behaviour so something has contributed to this. The reaction that's happened just deflects it onto immigration instead of actually addressing violence against women and why it happens.

Gang raping at any age isn't ‘normal’?

PhilippaGeorgiou · 14/06/2025 07:08

Sofiewoo · 14/06/2025 05:26

It is what I said actually, if you read my comment before lashing out you will see the top reason I chose catholic education is because there is no option for integrated education.
The second was that it preforms better, and a small factor was the other schools locally are incredibly loyalist, have affiliated events with the British military and that’s not something I want around my children.
Honestly the nerve for you to suggest not wanting a very loyalist school for my child makes me hard of the problem is farcical.

You don’t even live in NI, you aren’t from here and you’re going to lecture me on being “part of the divide” when you barely understand what you’re talking about.

Do not lecture me on where I am from. Largely because you are wrong. You are the one lashing out because I asked you legitimate questions about what you have said. You are simply proving the point that you are disputing - NI people don't like "outsiders" and nobody is allowed to exist if they are "outsiders".

You have said that saying "And NI has a long history of sectarian violence so this is in the same ballpark. Hatred and violence towards the “Other”.
I would not want to be an ethnic minority living there. Just seems to be roaming lynch mobs" is uninformed and naive. I have asked you how you explain that given the facts of sectarian violence and attacks on ethnic minorities and you fail to do anything other than attack. The evidence is that you may live there but you are the one barely understanding what you are talking about when you cannot see what is in front of you every day.

Again - explain what is uninformed and naive about what is a perfectly accurate observation.

Coolasfeck · 14/06/2025 07:22

I’m confused - aren’t Romanians white?

Sofiewoo · 14/06/2025 08:40

PhilippaGeorgiou · 14/06/2025 07:08

Do not lecture me on where I am from. Largely because you are wrong. You are the one lashing out because I asked you legitimate questions about what you have said. You are simply proving the point that you are disputing - NI people don't like "outsiders" and nobody is allowed to exist if they are "outsiders".

You have said that saying "And NI has a long history of sectarian violence so this is in the same ballpark. Hatred and violence towards the “Other”.
I would not want to be an ethnic minority living there. Just seems to be roaming lynch mobs" is uninformed and naive. I have asked you how you explain that given the facts of sectarian violence and attacks on ethnic minorities and you fail to do anything other than attack. The evidence is that you may live there but you are the one barely understanding what you are talking about when you cannot see what is in front of you every day.

Again - explain what is uninformed and naive about what is a perfectly accurate observation.

You would know what was wrong with that statement if you were in NI.
The claim that there are constantly roaming lynch mobs is so beyond ridiculous and the fact that you’re arguing this without even living there is beyond stupid.

The vast majority of NI is nothing like extreme loyalist groups who parade and protest every summer. They are a tiny minority and don’t at all represent the majority of the population, nor does the their existence mean that NI is culturally hateful.

NI people don't like "outsiders" and nobody is allowed to exist if they are "outsiders".
People disagreeing with you isn’t because you are an “outsider” it’s because you make stupid, generalising and incorrect statements like this as facts without really having any understanding.

Is it a fair summary to say because there were riots after the kids Taylor swift club attack that England is a culturally hateful place? Or is that somehow different?

A differing opinion to your own is not an attack. Hope that helps ✌️

PhilippaGeorgiou · 14/06/2025 09:16

@Sofiewoo That is an interesting perspective, still laced with "how dare you comment because you don't live here". I also comment on Gaza and the Ukraine, but I don't live there either. It doesn't mean my views are invalid.

AT no point did I suggest that NI is "culturally hateful", but you were denying decades and decades of sectian history which still divides the country; and as for "roaming lynch mobs", perhaps those "immigrants" forced from their homes and jobs would offer a different perspective? Who is it marking homes with graffiti warning "foreigners" to get out and painting targets on their homes - graffiti fairies?

I am aware that the marchers are a minority - they are a powerful minority backed by powerful forces that intimidate and terrify people every year. I am aware too of the power and dealings of powerful mafia like gangs in NI.

The riots in England were awful and I roundly condemn them as much as I condemn violence in NI. By the way - did you forget that there were riots at the same time by racist thugs in Belfast? It wasn't just England was it? Was it just solidarity amongst thugs? Will those be the same thugs forcing Catholics out of their homes right now, or different thugs?

What is different is the culturally ingrained sectarianism that introduces yet another level of violence. You see I agree with you that schools should be secular - but the very fact that you cannot make that choice is proof that the sectarianism exists at some level throught NI whether you want it to, or acknowledge it.

I do not - as I have made clear - think that most people in NI are thugs, criminals or bad people. But a sizeable minority are, and what is done about it is the measure of people too. Where are the counter protests? Genuine question - when the streets of England had race riots there were also people out protecting and defending the victims. You deny there is a problem for "most of us" - there is a problem, it is a problem that has existed for a very long time, and until people take a stand it will continue to exist. If the majority of NI do not want this kind of sectarian society, the answer is in your hands.

Anyway, thank you for explaining what you meant, even if I cannot agree. BTW, the reason I do not live in NI is because my parents were driven out of NI. Not everyone gets a choice, you see.

DeanElderberry · 14/06/2025 09:29

Coolasfeck · 14/06/2025 07:22

I’m confused - aren’t Romanians white?

So are 'Catholics'. @ComemosZanahorias' post upthread - 17:22 yesterday gives a good summary.

BagelTheSheep · 14/06/2025 11:12

I’ve lived in NI for 35 years and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a roaming lynchmob. Confused

My next door neighbour is a consultant gynaecologist from just outside Gdansk, the fella opposite us is from Iran and my cleaner is from Slovakia.

They’ve coped perfectly fine, from what I can tell.

Coolasfeck · 14/06/2025 11:17

Despite a gritty reputation, Northern Ireland scores better for housing, unemployment and poverty than many parts of England, Wales and Scotland. However, it has some of the worst education attainment rates in the UK and the highest rate of economically inactive people, metrics that hint at the alienation and hopelessness felt in some Catholic and Protestant working-class areas.’

So they have better housing and less poverty than England. Despite this they were given a £1bn bribe by Teresa May to back Brexit. Education isn’t a priority for a sizeable number. They have the highest number of people on benefits in the UK. All of this and they have the cheek to riot and chase working immigrants (who only make up 3.4% of the population) out (the article states only a small proportion of foreigners are asylum seekers).

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jun/14/facile-explanation-for-ballymena-outbreak-of-hostility-northern-ireland-racism

‘Where are the foreigners?’: does a facile explanation lie behind Ballymena’s outbreak of hate?

Northern Ireland faces stark questions over the racism, xenophobia and intolerance that has forced families from abroad to flee

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jun/14/facile-explanation-for-ballymena-outbreak-of-hostility-northern-ireland-racism

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