Ballymena

[Ablondiebutagoody]

AIBU to think that this kind of unrest/attack is happening more frequently now? Or did I just not notice before?

NBU - Yes, it's more frequent
ABU - You didn't notice before

EmeraldShamrock, that is bloody awful, that poor woman. No doubt every excuse in the world will be made for that vile man. Men like that should never be allowed on the streets again.

We weren't allowed to bring the army in during COVID.Presumably it was more important to protect people's sensitivities than save lives so I doubt if we can bring them in now.
These people need drenched with water cannons and not be allowed to assemble.Curfews should be used if necessary, the fear these residents must be feeling is horrendous.Stickers have been placed on doors identifying the tenants by nationality, where else would this be allowed to happen.

Northern Ireland has the worst rates of violence against women per capita in Europe. If the alleged attackers were "local' white boys, that young girl would have been called a slut.

These attacks are racist and those doing them are bigots. It's disgusting. I left N Ireland when I was 20 and have absolutely no intention of going back to live there. There's far more tolerance in England and that's saying something (especially after the horrible crash in Gujarat and the nationality of the sole survivor).

Thank goodness it has a bypass to get to the beautiful north Antrim coast.

Good old Portadown - the biggest dump of them all in NI. I remember the days of wishing it would rain very hard all summer so that we might have a break from it all.

Jesus why are so many posters suggesting the British army be sent to NI?? Are you guys stupid or what?

I agree. I hope the situation can be deescalated.

No, not stupid, sometimes thugs need to be treated like thugs.
There are several British armed bases in NI.
The PSNI is predominantly made up.of citizens who identify as British.

There are generally a lot of stressed and unhappy people at the moment with all the cost of living etc and a general mood of discontent with our politicians, police, courts, the media, international affairs etc. It doesn't take much for things to boil over into these sort of scenes at the moment.

Coming from NI it's interesting reading all the responses. Some fairly accurate, some ignorant. I've spent the last hour trying to compile more of a background to give more of an overview.

It is still largely tribal, ie. catholic and protestants, although it has definitely advanced from what it was. You see a lot more mingling now. Personally I'd get rid of all state faith schools as it would largely eradicate the segregation that starts young. Apart from a fella who sold groceries in a van that came into my area I didn't knowingly meet another Protestant until I went to uni in England. One Protestant in my realm until 18 years of age.

Backward policies. That stems from religion. The same areas where most of these riots are (loyalist towns in Antrim) is the bible belt of Ulster. As it states in the link below: "the area in Antrim stretching from roughly Ballymoney to Larne and centered in the area of Ballymena is often referred to as a Bible Belt. This is because the area is heavily Protestant with a large evangelical community. From 1970 to 2010, the MP for North Antrim was Ian Paisley, a Free Presbyterian minister well known for his theological fundamentalism. The town of Ballymena, the largest town in the constituency, is often referred to as the "buckle" of the Bible Belt".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Belt#United_Kingdom

Similar backwardness in this area to the red states in america. If you removed all the blue states (progressives) in america, slavery would still exist, that's the ownership of human beings (Africans), abortion would be illegal, homosexuality would be illegal (see link below, sodomy is still on the books in these states) etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States

To give you an idea just how backward the Free Presbyterians are, article on Edwin Poots (incredibly, though not for here, a former NI health minister).

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/11/northern-ireland-edwin-poots-creationist-anti-gay

"Edwin Poots, Northern Ireland's health minister, is almost comically unsuited for his position. He's a "young-Earth creationist" who believes the Earth began just 4,000 years ago. In a 2007 radio debate with Times columnist Matthew Parris, he rejected the big bang theory, saying: "You're telling me that cosmic balls of dust gathered and there was an explosion. We've had lots of explosions in Northern Ireland and I've never seen anything come out of that that was good." Needless to say, he also doesn't believe in evolution. Though he is willing to admit that dinosaurs may have existed before they were all drowned in the flood. Not exactly a promising start for someone in a ministerial position which, perhaps more than most, should depend on rationally assessing evidence.
More immediately troubling for many people in Northern Ireland are Poots's views on homosexuality. In short, he's against it. Poots is currently the subject of severe pressure for his dogged pursuit of homophobic policies. Poots is against gay couples adopting, and is attempting to maintain a ban on gay men giving blood. In addition, Poots has recently suggested stopping all paediatric heart surgery in Northern Ireland after a review suggested it would be more efficient to send children with heart disease to be treated in the Republic of Ireland or Great Britain".

And this is just a snapshot of the kind of people running this place. Can still recall Kay Burley on Sky News in 2017, on the time when NI briefly became relevant to the rest of the UK when the DUP had a deciding vote, when she asked with incredulity "who are these people?" before turning towards a bullet point list on a screen behind her.

https://www.joe.ie/politics/watch-kay-burley-sums-everyones-fears-dup-591157

Kay Burley sums up everyone’s fears about the DUP in the mother of all questions

"Having ignored Northern Ireland for the entire election, the UK media are now beginning to ask a few questions about the DUP.

The Democratic Unionist Party look poised to join the ailing Conservatives in government after Theresa May’s pre-Brexit gamble backfired, badly.

However the largest party in Northern Ireland, led by Arlene Foster, are something of an unknown quantity to the average Briton, and the average British political columnist.

Theirs is a long and interesting policy history, but just to mention a few of the highlights.

• Previously appointed a climate denier as environment minister of Northern Ireland.
• Insisted a creationist explanation for the formation of the Giant’s Causeway be included at the iconic attraction’s new visitor centre.
• Opposed to gay marriage – as demonstrated by members’ support for the evangelical bakers.
• Anti-abortion.
• Former leader Peter Robinson has gone on record saying some questionable things about Muslims.

Which brings us to Sky News Friday afternoon and a question from Kay Burley that will go down as one of the greatest of a rather eventful General Election.

As the Conservatives grab hold of the closest dance partner that could keep them in power, without scrutinising their credentials, Burley challenged Tory MP Graham Brady on the DUP’s policies.

Boy, did she challenge him…
“Given that the Lib Dems are where they are, what first attracted you to the anti-abortion, pro-Brexit, climate change deniers that are the DUP?”

So that is the type of people who have been running this place. Not that the other side, Sinn Fein, are ideal either. Frankly neither side of the two tribes should be running this place. Only when tribal politics has been eradicated, which would be greatly assisted with state faith schools being scrapped and integration taking place, should people from here be in charge. It's why, despite its faults, I'd be more than happy for most of the grown up decisions to be made at Westminster. Give us a mini form of devolution.

Tribes/religion causes backward thinking.

Christopher Hitchens: "Religion makes normally moral people do wicked things".
Sam Harris: "Religion makes smart people believe stupid things".

While I've mentioned all the backward stuff, there is however a genuine issue with an influx of immigrants as it can overwhelm a population. And one issue is they can bring something new and unsavoury to a place that is not accustomed to it. I've seen it in a town not far from where I am. Knife crime, by eastern Europeans. It never happened in the town in question. Ever. In their homeland, former Soviet bloc country, carrying a knife was common, as was using it. Such acts were not a thing here. There was a high profile example in the south which also caused outrage:

"Ashling Murphy, a 23-year-old Irish primary school teacher, was tragically murdered while jogging on the banks of the Grand Canal near Tullamore, County Offaly, on January 12, 2022. Jozef Puska, a 33-year-old Slovak national, was found guilty of her murder and sentenced to life imprisonment."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ashling_Murphy

Petty crime in NI, again very low here. The culture shock I had when I went to uni in England and saw bars on windows on ground floor homes. Walking into a newsagents and having to pay for stuff (biscuits etc.) which were located behind a perspex screen. Thought I was in a high security bank. I missed home then.

NI is, generally speaking, a very safe, hospitable place, but it does have a strong tribal culture that is the cause of much backwardness.

@ChessorBuckaroo However the largest party in Northern Ireland, led by Arlene Foster, are something of an unknown quantity to the average Briton, and the average British political columnist.

To be fair, there isn't really an "average Briton" or "average British political columnist". The average person / political columnist couldn't tell you much about Welsh politics or even Scottish politics (which is probably the better known of the three) because most information is England-centred. If you are in Wales you will hear more about Wales; in Scotland about Scotland; in Northern Ireland about Northern Ireland. But the UK is England centred - people from those three areas will know far more about English politics / England than most English people do about theirs.

NI is, generally speaking, a very safe, hospitable place, but it does have a strong tribal culture that is the cause of much backwardness.
And the cause of that tribal culture was manufactured in the interests of the English ruling classes, and then reinforced in laws. But that is an interesting statement considering that all the evidence is that it isn't safe for women and girls. And it is hysterical that you are claiming that knife crime was introduced by Eastern Europeans - even if true (and it isn't) armed violent crime has been a feature of NI society for generations, and the main reason you might have experienced less "petty crime" was no doubt attributable to (a) the fact that most crime was associated with organised crime of one sort or another and (b) if petty criminals made a bad choice of victim, they ended up knee-capped, which is a bloody great incentive against commiting a crime (unless you are in the right gang).

To be fair, I have never personally found NI and its people to be anything other than welcoming and hospitable in my travels there. But lets not gloss over its very dark history, its very dark present, and the deeply entrenched hatreds that did not get imported by immigrants - they were always there, they are still there, and if every immigrant left NI tomorrow (possibly a wise choice for some) there would still be flames in the streets.

Depends on how you define 'immigrants' really. Humans didn't evolve on the island of Ireland, all our ancestors came from somewhere, some more recently than others.

The Peep-O-Day boys didn't emerge from nowhere, the Battle of the Diamond didn't finish anything. The 17th century wars still being scrapped out in the extreme north-east of Ireland are not about religion, though that made a very handy way for the wealthy to distract the workers from pesky modern notions like organised labour and higher education.

During the partition, the Westminster government wanted the province of Ulster to be Northern Ireland, smaller more controllable border.

However the dominant Ulster Unionist party at that time rejected it because it would make the population of Northern Ireland a majority Catholic population. Westminster relented. Hence the six counties became Norn Iron, home of bigotry and discrimination against the minority Catholic community.

Humans didn't evolve on the island of Ireland...

In some cases it is sadly true that they still haven't evolved...

Nah there have always been race riots.

And men who get incensed at the thought of “their women” being assaulted by foreigners. (Said men are generally fine with “their women” being assaulted by men of the same background
though).

And NI has a long history of sectarian violence so this is in the same ballpark. Hatred and violence towards the “Other”.

I would not want to be an ethnic minority living there. Just seems to be roaming lynch mobs.

I'll always remember the posters from The Worker's Party at the time I was a young Saturday girl.

"Sectarianism Kills Workers".

It's was true then in the 70s and still relevant now.

So I’d not heard of Jeffrey Donaldson and have done a little googling …

Im also wondering where was the violence for what he is alleged to have done?

There does seem to be an acceptance of assault on women and girls by “our own” and not just NI.

These men and their supporters do not give one shit about women and girls

@tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz

Everyone refrained from protesting because they took heed that to do so would compromise the trial.

Despite her being in the last weeks of her life April 2024, my mother was at her most vocal about it. I can't write what she said.

Your mum sounds like she was a fierce lady placemats 💐

Lived to 99! She is greatly missed by us all and the good causes and people she supported, regardless of religion or background.

For all the blanket NI bashers out there, here is some data that actually suggests on average, we have the lowest crime in the U.K.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1030625/crime-rate-uk/

Also Belfast was recently suggested to be one of the happiest and most trustworthy places in the UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cewkqjlpg0vo

We do have a massive cultural problem with VAWG, and the responses to the Ulster Rape Trial show that.

We also have a huge problem with deep-seated pockets of segregation, deprivation and lack of education, an old police force that had to be disbanded due to lack of trust and corruption, a new one struggling with financing and recruitment, and the dark spectre of what happened the last time some bright sparks thought it would be a good idea to turn the army against the people it’s meant to defend.

There is also a very strong thread of history around ‘rough justice’ - the island has a long history, good and bad, of people fighting for what they believe in. Some of the things they choose to believe in and fight for are now judged by most to have been for the greater good of the island (war of independence), some seem shocking, reprehensible and heavily stoked by bad actors.

The point is, the historical pattern for better and often for worse is that people on this island historically DO get up and cause violent protest and insurrection, and that history is extremely hard to unpick and change trajectory.

Which ever side of the border or the sectarian divide, it is a totally different social context to GB and people have to bear that in mind.

Part of my family were fairly recent immigrants and my DH is an immigrant. We have peaceful and pleasant lives here.

Their trauma could be here in an abusive home - just because they are Romanian doesn't mean they can't be exploited like any other vulnerable child and then go on to harm others. The fact you can't see past their heritage is very telling.

We don't need the army to operate water canons. The police have deployed and used them this week. All our police officers carry guns.

I too would get rid of state faith schools in NI and that, as you write @ChessorBuckaroo would largely eradicate the segregation that starts young.
It would be amazing.

And? Over a third of the PSNI are catholic. It’s 2025 and catholic and Protestant doesn’t as hard line define nationality these days.
Anyone who thinks anything positive will happen from having the British army on the streets of NI is either ignorant or stupid when it comes to NI.