Cry it out - AIBU

[Chunkychips23]

(posting here for traffic and to get a general consensus on what approaches others have taken)

DH is desperate to do cry it out with our 18 month old, but I don’t feel that it’s the best approach - I have no judgement on those who’ve done it, I just don’t think it’s the right approach for our toddler. DC takes around 45-60mins to fall asleep at night, but sleeps through until morning.

Bit of background: I’ve recently had a baby and due to having a rough delivery and PPH, DH took over toddler care for the first week whilst I recovered. He completely changed DC’s routine, from nap times to meal times. As DH has the inability to literally just sit and exist, DC has been out on adventures all day everyday. Add all that to a new sibling, I feel that’s completely thrown him. Prior to this, DC went down to sleep with a cuddle and was happy to be placed in his cot and would drop off to sleep. He now also cry’s when someone leaves the room, which he never used to do. Again, DH is getting annoyed with this.

DH is getting incredibly frustrated that DC isn’t falling asleep independently anymore and needs someone to stay in the room with him until he falls asleep. I personally think he just needs more time to adjust to all the changes that have happened as it’s only been a couple of weeks. DH won’t hear it and thinks DC is doing it on purpose and trying to manipulate. The last time he tried cry it out, DC got so upset he projectile vomited and I stepped in, much to DH’s annoyance. He tried to do it again tonight and DC got very distressed, not ‘faking it’ as DH claims. Again, I stepped in and got DC to sleep.

Yes it is frustrating and DC is attention seeking, but he’s a toddler. He has very little emotional regulation and I think DH is being impatient and expecting too much for DC to just ‘get with the program’ after big changes. He’s roped his mother in to try and push me into leaving DC to cry until he falls asleep, so I’ve got both of them going on at me.

I think he just needs more time to adjust and I’m going to speak to the HV for some advice.

Am I being unreasonable by derailing his sleep training?

I wouldn't have had the 2 nd if the first had something wrong with them .

And what sacrifice are you on about?

Oh my God these fucking weak, intractable, heartless men. About the third thread this week I've read about 'fathers' who just can't be arsed with the inconvenience of loving their tiny children because it messes up their own preferences. I honestly just hate the lot of them sometimes. If they can't hack parenting they should just say so, fuck off and send money so the mums can just get on with raising the kids without the added work of managing these arseholes' callous, disruptive interventions. Aaaaaargh fuckemall 🤬

His whole world has been turned upside down with arrival of baby. If he's then feeling more abandoned at bedtime it is going to be very distressing. He is a toddler and needs validating and reassurance through the very understandable regression, which will be temporary if handled well.

Crying it out is hellish. I wouldn’t do it.

I dream of a toddler who.sleeps through. My almost 2 year old still.wakes a few times in the night, at least 2 and up to 4 times.

If he needs someone with him atm to fall asleep but is sleeping through once he's down then seems like a reasonable adjustment for the little man, and just part and parcel of being a parent to very young children. Your DH needs to accept and embrace it.

God, this is awful. Your h has all the empathy of a brick. And your mil is no better.

Sounds like you were doing a great job. Your h should learn to listen to you.

My parents did cry it out and I swear to god I remember it. I actually have some astonishingly early (albeit very brief) memories including things I couldn’t possibly have known any other way and I vividly remember being in my cot utterly petrified because nobody was coming; Wondering what had happened to mummy… Just evil.
OP, could his mum be encouraging him do you think?

Maybe dh needs to go back and live with mil if they share the same ideas..
Neglecting your dc isn't in your moral compass...tell her she can feed her ds whatever she wants and he can have as much sleep as he wants there...

Don’t agree with cry it out at all. Just teaches children that when they’re upset/scared and need us the most, we won’t be there so they just learn to accept we aren’t coming

Your 'D' H sounds like an emotionally abusive idiot.Cry it out is emotional neglect and you actually sound like you have a sound understanding your son's emotional development needs in general, so I am suprised you are asking if CIO is unreasonable.Is your husband quite controlling towards you?
Google the research, show him, and put your foot down that you won't let him treat your son that way again.
If he really wants to sleep train there are plenty of methods which don't involve leaving a child alone to cry until they are so upset they throw up.
And the reason he is clingy at bedtime is probably emotional insecurity from the previous occasions....cry it out will cause that.

Husband is an arsehole. Would just do it myself rather than his unhelpful selfish ways.

To be clear, that is probably not cry it out. Cry it out is usually referring to extinction which is where the child is left to cry until they stop and go to sleep, with no check ins or intervals or comfort, no matter how long it takes

At 18months cry it out will be extremely distressing. No harm has been shown to be caused by sleep training and so whilst we personally have not done it as I can't tolerate my child being so upset, I do not judge others. That said, your husband has no understanding of the functioning of an 18m old. They are communicating distress and a need for comfort. That is a valid and genuine need. If he would prefer that they fall asleep independently that is fine, but to expect them not to be upset about it and to suggest they are manipulative is unreasonable. If bedtime is taking 40-60minutes falling asleep independently may not even fix things, the issue could be changing sleep needs and a need for more time awake before bed or overall. Many sleep trainers would look at the overall sleep expectations rather than expecting sleep training itself to resolve bedtime battles. Are you hoping for them to be asleep too early? Are they on 1 nap or 2, and for how long? If they sleep through the night you really are fortunate and your dh is being very unappreciative of this.

YANBU ! Of course your toddler needs extra reassurance and cuddles at this time. You husband is being far too tough and I think CIO method is barbaric personally . I think you need to put your foot down And tell him that’s not acceptable- no toddler should be so upset they make themselves sick .
Hope you are feeling better soon and congratulations on new baby.

What I find a bit confusing here is that it doesn't sound at all like a serious sleep problem.

I did some controlled crying with my baby at about 10 months because he was literally waking hourly all night, crying so much - he cried less when we did the controlled crying!! It was literally torture and I was sobbing with depression at lack of sleep. We just stopped picking him up all the time and found he often resettled quicker.

BUT - you are describing a completely normal toddler bedtime!!

MY 10 yaer old still needs me to sit with her to fall asleep (she is ND but..still..)

taking an hour is normal??! HE is not properly prepared for childhood!

I also would stop the sleep training. It sounds like you had a good thing before and the change in routine is really effecting your DC. I'd point that out to DH and see if going back to his routine helps first.

I also have a DH who's mother interferes some times. She's a midwife so he feels she is qualified in all child related things. It comes from a well meaning place with her, by DH hasn't learnt to say thank you but we will do it our way. Drives me insane sometimes when I'm like I know our child so why does my MIL opinion matter over mine.

Oh, I’m sorry I didn’t realise that!

Still felt harsh even doing it my way, didn’t realise anyone actually just left their tiny baby to scream infinitely so assumed I had done cry it out since there was crying involved!

@Chunkychips23 I feel for you. You had a good routine with your little one before you “DH” changed it all up. You DC1 has had their life turned upside down and can’t express or probably can’t even understand how they feel about it. Like you said they just need time. It’s worrying to me that your DH keeps making these decisions without you and then trying to implement them without you. Does he not see you as one half of a team? It will be even more confusing for your toddler that there is an inconsistency in how you’re both approaching bedtime and now more than ever as so many PP have stated they needs reassurance. The fact that he’s calling your DC1 manipulative is shocking and needs to be dealt with. I would be sitting him down and explaining under no uncertain terms that his approach isn’t working and needs to stop. From now on you make decisions re sleep together and stick to it - no matter how hard it is - he needs to buckle up - did he expect things to be easy? Also his mum can give as much advice as she wants but she is not the parent of these kids and needs to be told respectfully thanks for your opinion, that’s not for us.

I’m a huge advocate for sleep training. I used Ferber technique for my DC at 6 months old who has slept through since. Contrary to all the PPs saying it’s awful and cruel, whilst I haven’t had my DCs recent cortisol levels I can assure you they have not learnt not to cry because no one will come - they cry all the time because guess what they’re still a baby. They have a great attachment with me and as a family the sleep means we’re thriving. I don’t judge people who do not sleep train at all but find it interesting that so many think it’s ok to make mothers feel awful for their choices that are not harming their child.

One of the fundamentals of Ferber is that you get a stable routine first, you don’t attempt it during huge life changes like on a holiday for eg or when baby is teething. If he wants to sleep train he needs to at least do some research first

This. You are literally teaching your little toddler that he can't trust his parents to care for him.

Signed,
A twin mum of two-year-olds, who never gets anything done, but at least doesn't have to listen to that distress in stereo.

No I've never heard of anyone doing that either

Thanks all for your input :)

I’ve taken back over bedtime and don’t let him anywhere near it. I feed DC2 before I start DC1’s bedtime and he either sleeps or DH takes him out on a dog walk. The latter is always preferable as it gets DH out of the way and prevents any interference or chipping in with comments.

DH isn’t typically cold towards DC1, which is why his militant and detached bedtime approach is quite surprising. I do think it’s his bloody mother who is chirping up, making him think something is wrong and needs to be fixed by methods she used. Every time she’s over, she’s obsessing with how my children sleep, nitpicking over my parenting choices, always comparing her adult children to my infants “I never had sleep issues with mine as I just left them to cry and they soon learned. You have to start when they’re newborns”

@Chunkychips23 next time she pipes up say “you didn’t have seatbelts or computers back in your day either but I’m not going to live my life without them just because you did. “

I have no idea what comes over people who think that unsolicited criticism is what a hormonal sleep deprived new mum needs. Giving her the benefit of the doubt she probably can’t remember how it felt to be a new mum and the world was very different I assume in her day so I understand the genuine shock at things being done differently but she doesn’t need to constantly voice it. Some people feel like you parenting differently to them is a genuine attack on how they patented so it could be that too.

you need to speak to your DH - her undermining you will have a toll on your relationship with her and maybe eventually him if this is not nipped in the bud. He should also not be giving you any “comments” at all. He has a right to express how he feels which he has, and you have said that that’s not how you want to proceed, now he should be supporting you with the bedtime routine that you want to put in place. Maybe also ask if he is ok and needs to see his GP ? Maybe he’s feeling low in mood or out of sorts which is why this behaviour is coming out like this

I wouldn't personally ever CIO but don't usually judge people who get to a point they choose to do that. However, that's because when people talk about CIO they at least usually are talking about a younger baby who cries for maybe ten minutes then falls asleep. Often from their description it sounds like they're fed, burped and are just doing an overtired cry. I still wouldn't do it personally myself, but I can see how someone could.

Leaving an 18 month old toddler to cry alone until they vomit feels emotionally abusive to me. It actually feels more cruel as they get older as they have more understanding that you're there and choosing to ignore them. I find it very disturbing that he can do that so coldly.

He really needs to tell his mum to butt out. I don't say that dismissively - my own DH is similar in some ways - but this is excessive and he needs to defend you as his wife and your relationship together. She's had her turn. It's your turn to choose how to parent and you do it together.

Also my own child was the same way - always took around an hour to fall asleep then slept through the night once asleep. I tried later bedtimes, earlier bedtimes, different bedtime routines and nothing helped. When he went to bed later he still took an hour to go to sleep but was exhausted the next day.

While lying with him to fall asleep was annoying, I felt very lucky that we'd always get a full night of sleep so I didn't want to tamper with things too much. My concern would be whether it's worth the risk of making bed and sleep a negative thing and if this could affect the nice sleeping through the night thing you've got going.

Slightly after turning 2 this improved and he now usually falls asleep within 15 minutes although a couple of weeks ago he randomly stayed awake until 4am and we had zero idea why. It's like his brain just wouldn't shut off. The next day was fun for nobody. However I'd say 90% of the time he falls asleep very quickly now.

Next time this happens give your husband an exaggerated hug and say 'oh my darling, I'd no idea you were emotionally neglected as an infant' try to squeeze out a tear