To think I’m not the toxic person in this situation?

[WartFace]

I’ve posted on this already, under a misleading title. Many apologies. If you’re still interested …

I have known for years that my BiL was not an easy person. He and my sister met at a very traumatic time in our family history and were engaged very quickly. I’ve always felt uncomfortable around him. I’ve told myself it’s envy and other unworthy things. She and I haven’t seen much of each other over the years but I thought we were close.

Nearly 2 years ago he did something that I felt was disrespectful and contemptuous towards me. Regrettably, I made a nasty comment to her on WhatsApp. I know I should have tackled him directly.
She described herself as devastated and when I rang to apologize she told me that I’d insinuated things I absolutely hadn’t even thought. The row went on for weeks. I honestly think I was trying to defend myself against false accusations but she took everything as an attack.

We were NC for some months until I dipped a toe back in the water. She responded very nicely, only stipulating that the past must never again be mentioned.

I apologized repeatedly for my words. She thinks she apologized for hers, but it was very much ‘You made me say it’. She’s never accepted my apologies in so many words. ‘I’m sorry’ was met by silence.

I’ve since heard stories about my BiL from my daughters and DiL that make me think he’s a narcissist or at least a genuine creep. My sister was so horrible and unforgiving and seems to have forgotten that now.

I think he’s a narcissist and she’s absolutely in thrall to him. Or maybe she’s right and I’ve always been the problem? I’m not sure which would be worse tbh.

Thank you, you’re a kind and patient bunch xx

Why are you listening to gossip. You don't like him, he doesn't like you, you don't seem close to your Dsis.
Keep your nose out.

Narcissists don’t think they’re narcissists, do they? My sister accused me of being one. Our mother and grandfather were narcissists. Of course I worry, I want to believe I’m a decent person. I’m looking for evidence that I’m not a bad person, after being told very often that I am. I think I’m entitled to that, don’t you?

Yes but when this thread tells you that you are in the wrong and to just leave this well alone, you don’t like that one bit

This, exactly

That’s because the people commenting don’t know the facts. Maybe because I haven’t given them? My bad. But it’s interesting to see how people address strangers.

Have you tried therapy @WartFace ? Apologies if this has been discussed. You've got so many unresolved issues, which are just eating away at you. I think you are only hurting yourself now.

When did I say I’m not going to leave well alone?
You seem to have decided I’m a lost cause and are reading my every comment in that light, to the extent of calling me a liar.

So to be clear, you are now to going to leave all this in the past and no long harangue your sister about her husband?

For many years but not since this happened. This has been my whole life and I’m just trying to trust myself. I had two deeply sick parents, a series of breakdowns at university, suicide to deal with at 21, sibling death at 27, terrible self confidence… Fortunately I have a wonderful OH and healing loving adult children to set against all that. I just thought my sister and I were still close and now I’ve found out what she really thinks of me. It’s hard but I’ll cope x

I was never going to do that. Please read my reply to Dangermoo above (or maybe below).

So you are going to let this lie and stop haranguing your sister about her husband
or you are?

sorry not clear

I'm sorry to hear about those awful things you've been through. Leave your sister and her husband to get on with their lives. Feed off your DH and kids and the positivity they bring you. Are you selling your mum's flat?

Just put it behind you.
Whatever you said has really upset your Dsis and hee words hurt you, it is done, over, you can not take back words, be more mindful next time.

If she doesn’t feel regretful about what she says, she presumably doesn’t care much about my well being. If so, I don’t think I want her to be part of my life.*

I think you are rolling too many things up together here. I care deeply about my sister. But we have had some arguments where I have said harsh things which I dont regret. Not because it is my wish or aim to hurt her - far from it - but because she is incredibly difficult, often attacking and sometimes I have to get to the point of saying my side of things. And sometimes that is not very nice.

You do seem to have a quite black and white view of what is going on. I echo people suggesting that therapy might give you a sounding board where you can explore this in more detail with someone impartial.

Dear MN, I’ve just had a good cry while writing a reply, first time since this happened. I think maybe I’ve needed a shove to get me out of anger and into grief. Thank you for the shove, especially those who have been kind xx

Take care xxx

Thank you for saying my words were wise. I'm in my 50s now and have sadly and painfully made many social missteps. Here's some further thoughts:

• other people will rarely give you the closure needed to find peace. Other people give you loose ends, tangle guilt etc etc etc. Make and find your own peace, based on what you can bear.

• if you can bear to forgive, not have the last word, bite your tongue, apologise needlessly - do it with wholeheartedly. Don't waver. It is strength showing as weakness and it is your power manifesting as kindness. Be strong.

• if you can't bear it, carefully walk away and disengage. I had a horrible argument with a good friend once and it obsessed me for months. Only resolving to focus on the friends who wanted to be friends helped. Giving the argument endless headspace didn't.

Hope this helps too.

It's all too vague. You haven't given any examples of what the toxic BiL has supposedly said and done, including the 'disrespectful and contemptuous' thing that supposedly sparked off the whole furore - which makes me wonder if he put a lock on the drinks cabinet when you came round.

At any rate, I gather there is another thread running and that you drink, or drank, too much. Your sister does not appear to be forgiving of your past behaviour so I think you need to accept this. Concentrate on yourself and leave them to it.

EDIT: Just read OP from other thread. Shouldn't have let someone you dislike and distrust do the marketing for your property. That was a mistake. I take it he was doing it pro bono?