To think I’m not the toxic person in this situation?

[WartFace]

I’ve posted on this already, under a misleading title. Many apologies. If you’re still interested …

I have known for years that my BiL was not an easy person. He and my sister met at a very traumatic time in our family history and were engaged very quickly. I’ve always felt uncomfortable around him. I’ve told myself it’s envy and other unworthy things. She and I haven’t seen much of each other over the years but I thought we were close.

Nearly 2 years ago he did something that I felt was disrespectful and contemptuous towards me. Regrettably, I made a nasty comment to her on WhatsApp. I know I should have tackled him directly.
She described herself as devastated and when I rang to apologize she told me that I’d insinuated things I absolutely hadn’t even thought. The row went on for weeks. I honestly think I was trying to defend myself against false accusations but she took everything as an attack.

We were NC for some months until I dipped a toe back in the water. She responded very nicely, only stipulating that the past must never again be mentioned.

I apologized repeatedly for my words. She thinks she apologized for hers, but it was very much ‘You made me say it’. She’s never accepted my apologies in so many words. ‘I’m sorry’ was met by silence.

I’ve since heard stories about my BiL from my daughters and DiL that make me think he’s a narcissist or at least a genuine creep. My sister was so horrible and unforgiving and seems to have forgotten that now.

I think he’s a narcissist and she’s absolutely in thrall to him. Or maybe she’s right and I’ve always been the problem? I’m not sure which would be worse tbh.

Thank you, you’re a kind and patient bunch xx

Broadly I would say that if you are worried you are a narcissist you are unlikely to be one

You're the problem.

I don’t think I’ve been furious (except when called a liar, which I’m not, but it does hurt to think you’re toxic and nasty.

Thank you. It haunts me X

Your behaviour is toxic. You're nuturing a two year grudge about an argument you started. I said it on your other thread, you hit (verbally) your sister first and are now playing the victim because she retaliated harder. You reap what you sow and you sowed spite so got it back in droves.

OP, reflect on how your sister makes you feel.
We don't have to see people whom we don't feel we have a positive relationship with.

Its ok to drop the rope, say nothing and just live our lives without the upset and drama they bring to it, intentionally or not.

Its ok to decide that you don't want to be around the negative emotions they dredge up in you, again, intentionally or not.

Choose you.
Choose peace.

Wishing you well.

Many of us do agree with you that you are “the bad guy”

but then you get defensive and say you’re not

We are feeding someone who is drinking. OP, it is very apparent

My advice remains the same as before.

This is her long term DH/Partner/person she loves.

She does not view him the same way you do so persisting along these lines does nothing but alienate yourself from her.

You have to accept she does not view him that way and therefore if you want to have a relationship with her you just simply need to let that go and not mention anything to do with him to her. If she brings him up just ignore or smile and change the subject, for your own sanity.

I have stopped drinking. Or do you think you know better than I I do?

I can see that if you think I’m lying about my drinking, I’m probably lying about everything. But I’m not. You’re determined to disbelieve me and that’s ok as you don’t know me.

I think you’re spiralling

You’re right. Nothing controversial has been said for months and nothing will be. I’m sad that she has been taken over by this awful man but I can see that she was always vulnerable.

Ca you tell me exactly what you mean by that?

Thank you. That really makes up for the nasty comments X

She may not have been vulnerable though. She may have made an active choice to be with him. This is an example of something you should never voice to her (even if it is what you believe).

What is it that makes you think your a narcissist?

Oh god, I’ve never said anything bad about him or their relationship to her. She’s told me some hair raising stuff and I haven’t passed comment.

It’s one of the things my sister said to me.

It’s very hard to say who was in the wrong here, because you don’t provide enough detail about the argument.

Nor do you provide any solid example about why you
think BIL is toxic.

but as a pp pointed out- if you worry about being a narcissist, then it’s unlikely you are one.

Also, the way you describe your sister being alienated from you because of a comment you made about her husband does sound like someone who has drunk the kool-aid about their partner. ( unless you have form for slagging off a perfectly decent guy)

Let’s face it, many wives would concede their other half is a bit of a twat at times. If she has to maintain he’s perfect at all times, then it’s possibly because that’s what he demands. But as I said it very much depends on whether you are constantly making digs about him.

The other thing I’d say is that narcissists bring out the worst in people. They play on people’s insecurities and weaknesses. It’s why people feel bad about themselves when they have to deal with them.

They also thrive by pitting people against each other. So if you have made it clear you didn’t like him very much, he’ll start a smear campaign and whip up resentment between you and your sister.

Thank you for that - you understand. I’m pretty sure I’m not known for slagging off nice people … I kept quiet about my BiL for over 30 years and still haven’t actually said anything directly critical of him (although my sister has done in the past). It’s not my business how they live their lives but he provoked me into being offensive and it’s as if he’s whiter than white …

So if what you are saying is correct, your sister stopped talking to you for months over a tiny thing? It seems like an over reaction.

were you very close before?

its possible he’s a narcissist and jealous of your relationship. That would be the reason this has happened.

and if it was genuinely just a one off argument, then it’s likely he’s been priming her for this for ages ( playing on any jealousy/resentment or insecurity she has about you)

A conversation with my sister is like walking on egg shells spread on landmines. She has no problem criticising me, my children, my marriage, the way I live my life but is up in arms at anything less then glowingly positive about her own life. If I don't ring, it's me being uncaring, if she doesn't ring, it's because she's busy.

It is my choice to continue the relationship in this way. Saying something will end our relationship. I value the irritating relationship more than not having it.

I think you need to consider the real options - who is the "bad guy" is a distraction.

• end the relationship
• continue the relationship on the understanding that the argument is in the past and cannot be resurrected
• try and have it out with your sister - this will also end the relationship and probably not give you the closure you want.

It's your choice. The past is the past, only the future is an option.

To be scrupulously fair to her, when she accused me of thinking he had an agenda - which I didn’t think at the time, even though she’d told me he can be untruthful - I said I was very hurt that she could think so badly of me. She then hit me with everything I’d ever done (or rather not done) to hurt her. It was as if she just couldn’t acknowledge that she could be wrong too. Our mother used to do this sort of thing.

Very wise words! I relate to the double standards. Her expectations of me are ridiculously high. I honestly just wanted to live and let live until he was so disrespectful.

So quite clearly you don’t think you’re the “bad guy” or a “narcissist”

you utterly flip flop op.