To say the £35k winter fuel threshold is way too high!

[chocolateismyweakness4]

The threshold needed to be raised, but £35k?! I wish I earned that and I have a mortgage and commuting costs. It also doesn’t take into account savings (so they could have millions in the bank) or household income.

We all know it’s a bribe, but they still won’t get pensioners to vote for them.

It’s the level of state pension you qualify for which determines whether you are topped up or not. You really should apply some critical thinking here.

I didn’t say the cut off but there should be a link. Why not?

If a partner in the household is earning a lot why does the other need it? It’s linked for CB why not this?

Were you arguing for this before Labour got in, Eastern?

Agree, as long as it’s linked at similar thresholds. Many people here arguing that £35,000 itself is too high for £200 a year, when the cut off for CB - worth a lot more - is £59,000. If you’re going to argue that a pensioner on £35,000 a year doesn’t need the WFA, then you can just as easily argue that a parent on nearly £60,000 a year can support their own kids.

It’s due to different costs at the stage of life. Childcare is incredibly expensive in the UK and mortgage will more likely be paid off as a pensioner.

I think many people are struggling mid life with young dc still just due to the cost of everything.

I wouldn’t change the 2 child cap though, and I’ve argued on other threads we should keep the bus pass for pensioners. It’s not all to be loaded at one age group but given the funding available I’d look at each item carefully.

Childcare is incredibly expensive in the UK

Childcare is needed for a relatively short period of time while child benefit is paid from birth to the 20th birthday if child is in education. If a couple has two children they receive it for a conservative estimate around 20 years. At today’s rates that’s £44k. It’s a bit rich for someone receiving that to complain about a pensioner getting £200 - a total of £4k if they live for 20 years.

Everyone who retires now will get the full state pension, providing they have at least 35 years of NI contributions. For those that haven't, they will get a partial payment or no payment at all. If there is no other household income, they are topped up by Pension Credit.

It's surprising how many people haven't made 35 years of NI contributions. Often they are financed by other people (often parents), so they don't claim any benefits, hence no NI contributions are made.

But still has to be paid. It might not be class 1 but still need to pay class 2/4

Obviously. But there’s an element of choice.

And that’s the point. You can “get some experience” and increase your income. You are the only thing stopping yourself from bettering your situation. Pensioners don’t have that option. They can’t pick up extra hours, get a second job, work some overtime, get some experience. They’ve done all that. For years. It’s not their fault you earn so little.

So you would equate around £45k of child benefit for the average of two kids, with around £3-4k assuming the pensioner lives around £15-20 years ?

Not sure what you mean by that. Under the latest system, everyone who has got at least 35 years of NI contributions gets the full state pension, but under the old system, many people only got the basic state pension which was topped up by Guaranteed Pension Credit if necessary. And there are still plenty of working age people about today who don't work and don't claim any benefits, so they won't qualify for a full state pension.

Actually most of the NIC is spent on pensions and the NHS!

What you’re also missing is that if there are 2 pensioners living together and they are within the £35k threshold, they won’t actually get the full payment each like they did before.

They will only get half of the payment now.

So an 80 year old couple would’ve got £300 each previously. So £600 in total. Now they’d only get £150 each so £300 total.

Also if one half of the couple earns over £35k, only the one earning under will get a payment and they will again only get half of the payment also.

So, YABU, because £35k isn’t a lot of money in the current climate and the amounts for some have been halved with the increase in threshold. And they WILL STILL be taxed on any earnings over £12,500 also. So your ‘they don’t pay N.I’ is a moot point because they WILL still pay income tax.

Just because it’s more than maybe you earn, doesn’t mean it’s a high amount in general.

Rightly so because the self employed don't get the same benefits as employed workers, i.e. statutory sick/maternity pay is less generous, unemployment benefit is less generous, etc.

My comment was aimed at the poster you were replying to. I was agreeing with you.

Ah, sorry.

Yes, that was my point if you read the exchange in the quote history. The level of benefits depends on the level of NIC paid.

£35k is NOT £3k a month 🙄

I earn £43k and it’s still not £3k a month after tax.

And if someone has an income from various pensions of £35k they will be paying income tax. Anything over £12,500 where the basic tax rate comes in, will be taxed at 20%.

This. You only get one personal allowance so everything over the threshold is taxed at the full basic rate.

That isn’t true. Before last winter we got half each.

Yes it’s that simple isn’t it? rolls eyes maybe we already work full time and taking a second job isn’t possible or would be a detriment to wellbeing and our performance in our main job. Maybe we have commitments or dependents that mean a second job isn’t practical. Maybe we apply for jobs all the time that earn better salaries but haven’t been successful as the job market is dire right now. Maybe earning more money would mean changing careers and we don’t have the money to retrain or able to suffer the drop in salary to start again in another sector.

By your logic pensioners should have taken a second job, saved more, got more promotions while working. It’s not taxpayers’ fault they now have so little.

(I don’t think that by the way, just showing your own logic can also be argued the other way).

But this already happened before the change. If there were two pensioners living as a couple in the same household the total allowance was shared between the two. So nothing has changed.

Many of todays pensioners have been carers, and haven’t had the opportunity to earn. It’s not the tax payers fault, but it’s not theirs either, and not an excuse to condemn them to poverty in their later years. I think some posters need a reset. We will all be pensioners one day, and I guarantee that by the time that day comes, life experience will have had an effect on point of view.

NI contributions also fund the NHS (something pensioners would really miss if it wasn’t there).
Plus contributions don’t stop once you have paid 35 years - you keep going until 66, 67, or 68 depending on your state pension age. If someone works straight after leaving school they would hit 35 years at 51, but continue paying if in paid employment until SPA/

The simple thing would be to get rid of the separate NI payment and just have it all as tax. Maybe it will stop people thinking there’s an NI pot in a vault somewhere with all their contributions.