To say the £35k winter fuel threshold is way too high!

[chocolateismyweakness4]

The threshold needed to be raised, but £35k?! I wish I earned that and I have a mortgage and commuting costs. It also doesn’t take into account savings (so they could have millions in the bank) or household income.

We all know it’s a bribe, but they still won’t get pensioners to vote for them.

Ah because they're pensioners. Which means they're special and deserve to be treated better than everyone else. Obviously.

You get child benefit which is worth 11 times more.

NIC covers sickness benefits, retirement pensions, credited national insurance, and unemployment benefits.

What would be the point of wanting retired people to pay it? None of the above are applicable for pensioners.🤷‍♀️

It doesn't though. It's just another tax
It's not ring fenced for any one thing.

You are incorrect. NI is for state benefits and once claiming state pension you are not eligible for those benefits.

State pension is defined as a benefit and once pensioners have reached retirement age their pension income is calculated by the amount of NI contributions made over their lifetime. Much the same way as when you reach the age when you collect your private or workplace pension - contributions stop because your pension amount has been calculated by the contributions in your pot at retirement age.

Do you think the cut off of £118,000 for child benefit is too high ? Given how much more CB costs the tax payer, £35,000 cut off for a measly couple of hundred pounds a year seems like a bargain.

Then many pensioners would be in poverty. Is that what you want? Guaranteed Pension Credit only brings the pensioners' income up to that of the full state pension. Much the same as Universal Credit tops up the income of working age people. Would you like to abolish that too?

Rubbish.

State Pension itself is defined as a benefit.
Pension Credit
Attendance Allowance and in some legacy cases DLA and PIP.
Warm Home Discount and cold weather payments as well as WFA.
Free TV licence if in receipt of pension credit.
Housing Benefit.
Council Tax Benefit.

Not for one moment suggesting that pensioners should be paying NIC, but these are all state benefits for which pensioners remain eligible.

It’s my understanding that if you carry on working after retirement age, you don’t pay any more NIC, but your employer absolutely does. Your pension income is calculated on NIC over your lifetime. Once your pension is in payment why would NIC contributions continue if they didn’t make any difference to the income you have ? It’s the same as a collecting a private pension and continuing to pay your contributions to it. Doesn’t make sense.

A case of mouth opened before brain engaged ?

This. Well said. If some of the mean mindedness applied to pensioners was also directed at those in receipt of CB this would be a very different thread.

National insurance is for in work benefits and state pension.

Governments are not generally generous. They will have worked out it will save the nhs and medical services more and reduce the strain on beds etc.
It’s a paltry amount, the bare minimum, and don’t forget older pensioners are given a much lower state pension.
The reason all pensioners were given the payment was because it costed more to try to ascertain which were eligible and get the payments only to them. I’ll bet that’s still the case, but this Government wants to make a point. The tax office admit they can’t/don’t cope with workload already but now they will be in charge of this too - what a monumental waste of time and money. Just give the payment and stop pitting sections of society against each other.

I would rather more was done to reduce overall costs of energy for everyone to be honest.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5352527-to-think-new-childcare-costs-screw-women?page=1

Didnt take long!!

Pensioners are not in work, by definition. Pension credit is not an in work benefit, neither is state pension itself - defined as a benefit. Disability benefits are not in work benefits but pensioners qualify for them. Council tax and housing benefits are also paid to pensioners, as is UC in certain circumstances. All funded from NIC. What’s your point ?

I don’t think your response is the gotcha you clearly think it is either 😂

People might make broad comments about generations as a whole (and let’s not pretend it doesn’t go both ways) but I don’t know anyone who gets childcare help from relatives that is simultaneously ‘slagging off’ as you so delightfully put it those relatives even if they do have particular opinions about how the average generational experience compares. Most are very grateful for help.

On the other hand from the general feel of the comments often seen on MN related to this subject you’d think that older generations wanted almost nothing to do with their grandchildren and were also never cared for by their own grandparents when they were children.

Surely same thing for the self employed then? They won't get sickness or unemployment benefits

Many of us are ALSO disabled. It isn't a race to the bottom. Compare a threshold of £100,000 for free childcare hours. How much does 30 hours free childcare every week cost the country, because WFA is £200 a year... Someone with an income of £35,000 a year pays nearly £4500 per year in tax, so it isn't exactly breaking the bank - many pay a significant amount of tax and are paying for all the other benefits that people need as well. Stop treating pensioners like lazy freeloaders - that bullet comes back to bite you when it's your turn.

I would look at it in terms of need and costs, childcare costs are high, rent or mortgage are high. I think enough goes to people with dc already though so I’d not remove the two child benefit cap.

Pensioners won’t have childcare costs and often be mortgage free. I’d also do the threshold thing as CB does so when one partner is over it it stops for both.

Otherwise you can have a pensioner on a lot in a household with the other keeping the WFA.

I don’t think your response is the gotcha you clearly think it is either

Maybe not but my post at 18.00 today certainly is 😂

So you’d set it at £35000 for both ? Really ?

Yes there shouldn't be any top ups.

As long as you have worked no matter how low paid or been a carer etc you should qualify for state pension which prevents poverty.

There are different levels of NIC for self employed people.