Mums partner 6 yrs want's her to lend him all her life saving for a loan to buy larger house she won't be on deed for.

[Moniworries]

I'm worried even though on paper it's a short term loan to enable him to buy a house now until the current one is sold.

She's worried but she also trusts him.
They have been together for 6 years and to be fair he's a nice guy, he's got two adult DC and mum has two as well. They share one DC my brother

She lives in his house now but it's quite small he wants to buy a slightly larger house for family to visit and he will be a grandfather soon

They live quite rurally so harder for family to visit.

I'm concerned because he won't marry her he said it's too complicated with his adult children and also work shares and a family trust,he won't put her on the deeds.
He's never shared a Will even but has said brother will be looked after .

Mums put up with this because she's still got her divorce money ring fenced in case of problems which is about 250. That's her fail safe and she's been comfortable with her situation living in a nicer house than she could afford with that money for her should something happen

Technically he would be borrowing this money only on a short loan but she's worried as am I,what if something random happens to him in that time?

How could she get it back and what if it gets lost in complicated trusts?

Absolutely NOT
NEVER
NO

They share a child together but he won't get married? Tells you pretty much what you need to know about how your mother should protect herself and their child, especially as they haven't discussed and been open about their Wills.

At the moment @Moniworries your mother has a roof over her head and a nest egg to fall back on should she need it. So the DP manages to use her money to buy the bigger house, they move in, but his existing house fails to sell. Meanwhile something happens, the relationship breaks down, one or the other of them dies. DM's money is all tied up. If she's the one left alone, how does she cope, where do they live longer term? These are basic things that should be sorted and accounted for legally.

Your mother doesn't need advice from you or the hive mind of Mumsnet, she needs to consult a solicitor about a myriad of issues.

No no and NO!!

Hi OP,
I'm wondering why you haven't passed comment on the people that have suggested your mum should secure her money by getting a charge registered on the property for sale?

It's not simply a case of lend the money or don't lend- there is a middle ground of lend but safeguard her money.

A charge against the property for sale would ensure the solicitor gives your mum her money back - directly - before her partner is given any remaining monies from the house sale. That is assuming equity in the property covers any mortgage, your mum's loan and there is money remaining.

A charge is what a mortgage company holds against a property and paying it back isn't optional the solicitor is obliged to. If there is already a mortgage against the property they would hold the first charge and your mum would hold a second charge - next in line for repayment after the mortgage.

If your mums partner died before the house was sold the charge would still require her to be paid back when the house was sold /when her partners estate was sorted out. The estate would owe the debt and it would remain secured against the house - like if you die holding a mortgage it still needs to be settled.

Never lend what you can’t afford to lose. I’d want to be named on the deeds even if it’s only temporarily till he repays the loan

It would still mean her money wouldn’t be available to her if she needed it. Presumably there’s a reason it isn’t currently invested in property.

I disagree @martinisforeveryone marriage isn’t always the best option when children and assets from previous relationships are in play because it is too rigid it simply means everything is jointly split.

BUT there are things that can and should be done to make sure everyone is protected and that is what should be done here - legal advice taken

Nay, nay and thrice nay.

Tell her to get legal advice and for the loan to be drawn up with a solicitor. If he is not happy to do this, then she needs to understand it would be very unwise to go ahead with the loan.

Only ever loan friends and family money you can afford to never get back.

Yes - if they engage a solicitor to put a charge on his house so that her money goes directly to her once the house is sold.

Looking at the whole picture, I don't really blame him for not wanting to marry if your Mum is bringing less to the partnership than him, and both have previous children.

I would feel the same whether I was your Mum, or her DP. Wills and step children get very messy.

Additionally your Mum is living in his house - rent free? I mean, fair enough, she is mother to his youngest child - but it isn't a big ask for he to facilitate the purchase of a bigger house for them all.

In your Mum's shoes I would want to know that his will allows for a life interest on the home for at least until the youngest leaves Uni, and that a significant loan is made with a legal charge against the house, repayable to her. It comes direct from the solicitor handling the house sale once the completion money goes into the solicitors account.

However your Mum also needs to look at the implications of releasing her savings.

If any are in ISAs, non-flexible ISAs, she can't put the full amount back in and will lose the tax advantages of ISAs if she earns more than £1k a year in interest. Which she should be, easily, with £250k.

Thrice NO!
Any whiff of a family trust that she wouldnt be part of is a no from me as it can go horribly wrong.
Interesting that his credit is not good enough to get a loan/mortgage for a loan from official sources

Why wouldnt she be on the new deeds if she's going to be paying a large lump sum towards buying it? What if he dies before he can repay her? She's not his DW, presumably she'd be living in a house that would belong to his beneficiaries- his DC? Would his will give her a lifetime interest to live in it with their son?

Interesting that his credit is not good enough to get a loan/mortgage for a loan from official sources

It probably is but he won’t do that because he’d a) have to pay interest on it and b) have to repay it. He must think OP’s mum was born yesterday.

When I bought my house DP couldn’t get a mortgage but had some money we wanted to use towards the deposit because it changed the interest rate I could get and made the house much more affordable. The only way we were allowed to do this was him signing it was a gift and there was no expectation of the money being returned. Without that I couldn’t get the mortgage because it was too high risk for the lender. As it isn’t a gift she would be silly to sign that it is one in my eyes! The only way I would be willing would be if my name was on the house, I’m sure she can ring fence her contribution and then she’s protected and the issue goes away? Him being unwilling to go with this if it was offered would ring alarm bells to me.

She would be insane to do this. The fact he won’t marry her would make me walk away.

No and outrageous that he even asked

Absolutely not... no matter how much she might trust him.

I actually would consider doing this, but only with a watertight legal agreement that the loan would be paid back as soon as the old house was sold, and a charge on the new house until the debt was repaid.

For a man who doesn’t want to share his assets with the mother of his child because it’s too complex, he seems awfully keen to get his hands on her assets in a way which would make your mum and your brother incredibly vulnerable.

It sounds like she’s being fleeced here.

You can’t really stop your mum from doing this as she’s an adult, but if it was me I would absolutely do everything in my power to dissuade her. Ask her what she would do if you or your siblings came to her and said “Yhe he won’t marry me but he wants me to lend him my life savings! Also I won’t be on the deed! Isn’t that great mum? Are you excited for me?” Sometimes all it takes is for someone to hear it like that and they realise they’re being silly.

She either needs to be on the deeds of this house or else get a proper loan document drawn up at his expense by a solicitor, stating that the property is security for the loan (in the same way as a mortgage is) then if anything happens to him, or he defaults on paying her back she will be able get her money back.
To lend him this money without this is sheer folly on her part. If he died unexpectedly the house would be swallowed up into his estate and your mum's money end up being shared out among his beneficiaries!

Your mum is being stupid. Honestly. Putting a charge on the property won’t protect her. She’s being an idiot, simple.

Of course, but I was responding to the OP's opening remark about not marrying her mother and that he also hasn't pursued any other options, because 'it's too complicated' I took from that, that he isn't looking out for DM's interests, or, his youngest child's particularly. Bear in mind that the proposition debated here is DM handing over her life savings for a short-term unsecured loan and living in a property she has little or no legal claim over if the worst came to the worst.

And, as you see, I finished with

'Your mother doesn't need advice from you or the hive mind of Mumsnet, she needs to consult a solicitor about a myriad of issues.'

so we're not necessarily disagreeing.

Look at it this way, if a bank who is in the business of lending money wouldn’t lend money for a house purchase without the loan being secured against then house then nor should your mum.

If she lends him the money, it should be done properly with security lodged against the property until the debt is repaid.

It doesn’t matter if he is a nice man, or whether she trusts him. You mum needs to protect her money against risk.

She should only do it if shd gets a cgarge against his title. Even then - no. Just - NO.

A nice guy would not be asking this