To not want DC to travel to ExH on their own?

[NotQuiteSureReally]

Bit of a long one sorry.

Split with ExH few years ago - it was messy at times but mostly ok now. We’ve got 2 DSs, 15 and 14. We’re in Manchester and he moved up to Scotland end of last year (he’s about 3 hrs away by train). Up til now he’s been coming down about once a month to see them - take them out etc.

He’s now saying he wants them to go up to him - esp over the summer so they can stay a bit longer. Youngest has a commitment EOW but that’s off til Sept so I get why he’s asking now.

Here’s the problem - I don’t trust them to go on their own. They don’t get along AT ALL. DS1 is not the most sensible, can be quite stroppy and has a habit of storming off when he doesn’t get his way. DS2 is very immature for his age - I don’t think he’d cope well if something went wrong or they got split up or whatever. I can honestly imagine DS1 walking off if they argued mid-journey and just leaving DS2 to figure it out.

I’ve said no but ExH is now saying if I don’t agree he’ll just ask them and they’ll go anyway. They were both quite upset when he moved and I know they’d like to spend more time with him - but I don’t want them being responsible for getting there alone. Also not sure how I feel about him going behind my back to ask them.

AIBU to say no to the travel? Or should I just let them go and hope for the best? Am I being overprotective?

I like @CorvusPurpureus idea of keeping things individual, and putting this back on your ex. I also like the idea of looking into the possibility of direct coach routes.

My parents had me/my siblings travel solo/unaccompanied (internationally and nationally) from a young age, but that means nothing really: they knew we would be fine (I could be relied on to help my younger brother and stick with him), taught us what to do if there was a problem and crucially we had reliable people meet us/drop us off at either end. Just because it was fine for us as a family, doesn't mean that it would be fine for another family. You know your kids/ex better than anyone, and will know what will suit. I'd be concerned about ex not being reliable as well. For me, that would be a big worry.

…they are old enough to do it.

..they bicker like all siblings, take yourself out from the middle of it

..if one of them “storms off” on a train, they aren’t going to get very far, just the end of the train

..they might surprise you

..if you are that worried, but them tickets in separate carriages

I get that it makes you nervous but I think they will just need to do it once and then they will feel more confident about it. They will probably also mature from the added independence. Don’t place them next to each other though.

They're both old enough to travel by themselves. Give them their own ticket and own phones and make them responsible for themselves, not each other. If they look out for each other, bonus. Chances are they'll act more maturely when there are no adults around

I have 2 DS, when that age one would be happy to do the journey alone, is really confident, the other wouldn’t and I would probably have to do a dummy run with him, they also don’t get on, so I wouldn’t rely on either of them helping each other if there was a problem. These days you have to be confident on train journeys, as the best laid plans go astray with cancellations, diversions etc, so they need to know back up plans, it’s not just a case of putting them on a train and they will get there. Personally, I would rather them go on a bus, but my ex would have to ensure he was there at the end of the journey to meet them. At the end of the day, they are old enough to to say if they are up for going and it’s nothing to do with age.

OP you say they’ll want to go so can you use that to persuade them to behave properly? Maybe tell them that you’ll let them go if they can do xyz beforehand, and that if they mess it up, they won’t be allowed to travel again till they’re 18?

How long does the ex want them to stay for?

If it's for a week I think it would be worth it for you to travel up with them, and come back the same day; then ex does the bringing them home journey.

Maybe the second time they go it could be on their own.

Direct train, with booked seats near, but not next to, each other. Surely they are unlikely to bicker and argue across other passengers? Your ex doesn’t need to meet them from the platform, they will follow the crowds through the ticket barriers and he can meet them there.

I’ve not read the whole thread so apologies if this has already been suggested.
First, have you spoken to them about going? How would they feel about it?
Is it a direct train or is there a change? If direct then that’s easier.
Can you track them on their phones? That may give you peace of mind.
Could ex meet them half way?

It’s worth trying to build some independence in the mean time, even if it’s a no this year by next year your eldest will be 16 and should be able to travel to his dad’s.
Also worth trying to get them bonding a bit better - games where they’re on the same team for example may help.

This. It’s really not that far and each should be able to manage it on their own if necessary/briefed about any changes etc. DD did a similar journey at that age with a train. She had a mobile and I told her what she should do if she missed her connection etc.

Ludicrous that this is even a question tbh. A 14 and 15 year old will have absolutely no issues getting a train on their own, unless there are serious SEN.

Stop babying them and let them grow up a bit.

15 and 14 yr olds should be
able to manage that travel themselves.

my two have travelled between Scotland and England since they were 14 and 10.

well briefed. With a plan for delays or breakdowns and mobile phones, chargers and money.

That would be why I said park the logistics on the dad. I'm not sure any of us get to opt out of having the 'practical advice' convo, though, when the other parent's unreliable.

I've spent a decade doing the 'oh no idea about when you're flying to see your dad...ask him? No, I don't know what you'll need to pack...talk to your dad?' dance, so I'm fairly battle hardened.

I'd still talk my kids through 'here's what you do if problems arise', though. Because I don't want them to be left scared or uncertain just because of their father's weaponised incompetence.

& THEN I put my feet up.

Not sure you can really insist a 14/15yo goes anywhere to 'give you a break', though. Sadly.

I’ve said no but ExH is now saying if I don’t agree he’ll just ask them and they’ll go anyway. They were both quite upset when he moved and I know they’d like to spend more time with him - but I don’t want them being responsible for getting there alone. Also not sure how I feel about him going behind my back to ask them.

He's asked you and you said no. So if he suggests it to them now, he isn't goig behind your back. Your ex isn't being unreasonable in wanting a bit more time with them. so both of you need to find a way of making this work.

I think I'd use their desire to see more of their dad to read them the riot act over sticking together, ignoring each other, not arguing. Definitely a direct train. If and only if it goes ok they can do it again. Any issues at all and it's off the table. Put the onus on them and if anything goes even slightly awry (that's one of their fault) then it won't be happening again. See if you can gain a bit of cooperation between them by putting them on the same side? Or is there a bus that might take longer but a bit more reliable?

At 14 & 15 you should really be able to put them on the train. You would be unreasonable to not try. The aren’t even young teenagers, they need to learn to grow up.

Honestly, I know it’s easier said than done, but try to see this as an opportunity for yourself. Whereabouts in Scotland? There are some gorgeous spas and hotels and such interesting culture in Edinburgh and Glasgow. Can’t you take them there and then treat yourself to a couple of nights away before going home. You may as well become familiar with the country their father now lives in… They might end up going to uni there, getting jobs there, living there. There are always brilliant comedy nights and gigs on, tons of free museums and galleries…I could go on, but then I love Scotland 😀

I used to do this with my kids: London to grandparents in Wales. There were never any reports of issues. I suspect that pissing one another off was far less fun on a train and with no parents to wind up.

Tell them to sit separately and treat it as if they are going on their own adventures

for the older son I’d be fine regardless for the younger son I’d insist on a direct train even if that means either your or ex do have to travel a bit

Fully charged phones and the riot act read beforehand! They’ll be fine.
Who knows, it could end up being a bonding experience!

Oh, and many snacks 😁

How can they not be “young teenagers” when 14 is literally the second year of being a teen?

A 14 and a 15 yo should be perfectly ok to undertake a train journey independently.

This wouldn’t worry me at all.

(if they are NT / have no SEN )

These days you have to be confident on train journeys...

As if cancellations etc never happened before 'these days'.

But of course a 14 and 15yo ought to be able to make a train journey independently. Barring SN, it shouldn't even be a question.

If something unexpected happens, you find a uniformed member of staff and ask. No need for complicated plans.

And listen to anouncements and read information boards. Surprising number of adults don't seem able to do that, and ask me, another passenger, 'Is this train going to xxxx?' as it pulls into the platform, when the information is there for them to see and hear.

Ok,
So they're not nice to each other
But is that the only problem? Would you send one alone? Could he just book them seats apart from each other - you escort them
To the train in Manchester help them find seats, then dad gets them in Edinburgh?