To not want DC to travel to ExH on their own?

[NotQuiteSureReally]

Bit of a long one sorry.

Split with ExH few years ago - it was messy at times but mostly ok now. We’ve got 2 DSs, 15 and 14. We’re in Manchester and he moved up to Scotland end of last year (he’s about 3 hrs away by train). Up til now he’s been coming down about once a month to see them - take them out etc.

He’s now saying he wants them to go up to him - esp over the summer so they can stay a bit longer. Youngest has a commitment EOW but that’s off til Sept so I get why he’s asking now.

Here’s the problem - I don’t trust them to go on their own. They don’t get along AT ALL. DS1 is not the most sensible, can be quite stroppy and has a habit of storming off when he doesn’t get his way. DS2 is very immature for his age - I don’t think he’d cope well if something went wrong or they got split up or whatever. I can honestly imagine DS1 walking off if they argued mid-journey and just leaving DS2 to figure it out.

I’ve said no but ExH is now saying if I don’t agree he’ll just ask them and they’ll go anyway. They were both quite upset when he moved and I know they’d like to spend more time with him - but I don’t want them being responsible for getting there alone. Also not sure how I feel about him going behind my back to ask them.

AIBU to say no to the travel? Or should I just let them go and hope for the best? Am I being overprotective?

It doesn't really matter whether other children could manage this, it matters to the op whether her children can.

Sounds to me like the eldest would be fine, but the youngest may struggle. I think you have to treat them like independent children - so a conversation with the youngest about whether he would feel like he would like to try it. What would he do if there was a problem. Don't assume his brother will take responsibility for him.

14 is still young to be trying a longish journey for the first time. If he's not comfortable, then your job is to advocate for him and say no.

You are being ridiculous. He’s their father. They are going to Scotland not the Middle East.

Gift them Apple watches for Christmas and track them.

It sounds like you enable their behaviour. They absolutely need to be with their father or they will grow up emotionally stunted and incapable of having a healthy romantic relationship when they are adults.

If you genuinely can't trust them to cope on a three hour train journey together, you have bigger issues IMO.

They can always travel separately but on the same train. They don't have to sit together.

I think they should be able to manage it. If going together is going to make it worse how do you feel about putting them on separate trains and making them travel alone? Or booking them in separate compartments?

I would feel very very angry that they are messing about and acting up. And would be letting both of them know you view it as utter selfishness on their parts to make it this difficult.

That should be a direct train. I'd tell dh he needs to do it with them the first time.

If not then I genuinely would put them on it each with their own ticket and an alarm set for 5 minutes before train is due to arrive at destination and to call me or dh if anything goes wrong.

Agree that they are more than old enough to do this and I was going to suggest the same as the last poster that they sit in separate carriages. Get your younger one to listen out for the announcement from the train manager of where they’re located and go to sit near there, or near the shop or something. Trains are pretty good at announcing any issues and if that happens they can call you or dad and you can check online. Again like PP have said, try to make it a direct train if possible or allow extra time for a connection

Unless additional needs I’d expect a 15 and 14 to be able to get on train and be met other end. Maybe do a trial run. Show them they need to keep checking boards etc (just waiting for a train now with a last minute platform change) in a couple of years they’ll probably be off to uni open days and then uni alone.

Mine bicker, and are similar ages. Ex would also over ride me if I said no. Say yes, and leave it up to ex to sorry the logistics.
Tell them they are responsible for themselves and leave it up to dad to sort. Don’t let this become your problem.

I did my first solo train journey of 7+ hours when I was 7 years old. My sister was 10 or younger.

I walked from school with my sister when I was 6 and when I was 7 I walked home by myself.

It is essential to allow children to grow up without coddling them.

I was babysitting at 13 years old.

I was a normal kid. I wasn’t especially mature.

I think the OP is holding her children back.

If it's a direct train and their father meets them off the train I can't really see the issue.

My husband is disabled and we book assistance in train journeys and the train manager just checks if we are ok as they move through the train and check we are ready to get off and need any help. Can you book something like that? They don't ask why you need help in my experience. If not I'd be inclined to get on the train and go one stop so I could see they are settled. Would their father do the same?

Ultimately it could be good for them.

I'd start on enabling things that will get them ready for this.
Do you never leave the pair of them at home together?
It obviously depends on the kids, but this summer I'm intending on taking DS2 (14) to our nearest main-line station, and dumping him on a direct train for a couple of hours to my parents for a week. He's never done anything like that before. I'm not letting him walk to our local station, and navigating changing trains alone this time tho. His (just turned) 16 year old brother would be more than capable of this tho. Is there anything without the emotion of the ex involved you can trial it out with?

Walk off where? Elsewhere on the train? You stick him on in Manchester and your ex collects them in Scotland. They can’t become separated in between? Even if they sat at opposite ends of the train they are still getting put on by one parent and collected by another.

They don't have to sit together.
They can be responsible for their own tickets and belongings.
Just prep them for the journey individually.

I do think DS1 would probably be fine on his own tbh - but I’d still be a bit wary as he can be silly and just not think sometimes. It’s not that I don’t think either of them can manage it full stop, it’s the two of them together that’s the issue. That’s what makes me nervous.

I’m not exactly “coddling” them either - I know they’ve got to learn independence but it has to be at the right pace and right setup. Politely, the replies listing what your DC were doing at that age aren’t massively helpful - because like someone else said, it’s about my kids and whether they’re ready, not anyone else’s.

Also worth saying - I highly doubt ex would be waiting for them at the other end. He talks a good game but he’s not the most reliable when it comes to the finer details, so I wouldn’t count on him being on the platform to meet them off the train.

Youngest doesn’t go anywhere on his own apart from school, and even then DS1 is usually with him unless he’s off sick. It’s not that he’s scared, he just genuinely has no interest in going places - he prefers being at home and keeping to himself. We (well, me really) are trying to work on it and get him out of his shell but it’s not a quick fix.

If they’re going by train it should be pretty simple as long as they’re met at the station, you can track the journey on Trainline etc if there are any hiccups. Even if one strops off he won’t get far!

My daughters constantly fight and for this reason I wouldn’t feel comfortable letting them go anywhere on their own together. I can’t even leave them at home together on their own and that’s not me helicopter parenting, my eldest is ND and just not tolerant or protective of her younger sister at all and I wouldn’t feel comfortable and have the same fears as you. They’re a bit younger than yours though.
In your situation I would probably travel with them a couple of times until I feel happy they would know what to do if anything happened - and comfortable that they wouldn’t have a fight and leave each other.

Is there a national express coach they could take? My DS regularly travels between me and his dad on these and a lot of them go from Scotland to London with no changes, so pretty straightforward. I put him on and his dad meets him where he gets off. Sometimes we reserve seats but often no reservations available so they just sit anywhere there is space, wouldn't need to be together. And it's much cheaper than the train.

It’s not that I don’t think either of them can manage it full stop, it’s the two of them together that’s the issue.

So send them separately. They are more than capable.

You're going to have to loosen the apron strings at some point. Ask him to explain that there's to be no arguing or stomping off otherwise they won't be trusted to travel again. Tell ex if there are problems when travelling he has to resolve it - they have to ring him not you.

If you're making sure the train is direct, you drop them off and make sure they're on the train. Your ex makes sure he's there to collect them the other end. Your boys need the riot act read to them, especially the eldest. They may not need to sit together or have to speak to one another but they do need to look out for each other.

Old fashioned bribery? DS1 is in charge and has to keep an eye on DS2, and in exchange he gets some cash/some other reward?

You do have an issue if your 14 year old is too immature. I mean, I wouldn't personally send my 14 year old on a long journey like this alone, but with a friend or older cousin I would, so it might be that forcing the issue could help him to start growing up a bit?

Could you send DS1 on his own? This might make DS2 think about getting out more. Then, when they’re ready to travel together book their tickets in advance, same train but different carriages or seats at opposite end of same carriage so they won’t have as much opportunity to annoy each other.

They’re both of an age where learning to do this is a very appropriate life skill.

They don’t need to be together, they can sit in separate carriages.

For the first time - maybe a parent does the journey as well, but separately to them - tailing them so around to head off major misdirections.

If thinking about going multiple times this summer - then the activity for this summer can be learning to use the train network. And while
you doing travel to ex who’s moved away might feel not your role, teaching life skills is.

Mine have been doing this (london - Bristol) since they were at least 10(dd) & 12(ds) They’re now 14 & 16, and are confident on public transport as a result, and this summer will be flying back from Australia by themselves. And they don’t always get on, DS is capable of being a right dick to DD at times, especially when they were younger although much less so now. But they would actually look out for each other in this situation.
First, discuss it with them. How comfortable would they be doing this? And talk to them about how though they might not always get on, that they’re a unit in this situation and for those 3 hours they have to put their differences aside. It’ll also be a good way to address your eldest’s thoughtlessness of your youngest.
and if you can get to a station from your house on public transport, it will make your life easier in the long run too. you’ll have to take them to the station & pick them up in the short term but before long they’ll be able to do the whole thing by themselves - pack their own bags, work out the timings, get to the station& back by themselves and so as well as giving them independence, resilience, problem solving skills and how to get on better tofgether this Will also give you so much more freedom (this will take a year or two, but they’ll get there!)
Rather than a problem, see this as an opportunity (it is one. Promise!)

I understand you are worried - I can be over cautious about my daughter myself - but if you think about itz the worst that could realistically happen is not that bad.

Do the boys feel like they can handle it? Do they want to do it? If they do I would let them. But I wouldn't make them if they are reluctant (if you see what I mean).