SEN funding isn't a bottomless money pit

[Sogfree]

I'll preface this by saying I really enjoy my job working in a SEN school. I care deeply for the children and families I work with.

I've had 4 different conversations this week with parents where they expect an excessive amount of additional resource to be allocated to their child. They expect this as, in their opinion, it's needed. I disagree with 3 of the 4 parents that this is needed.

All 4 of the parents are going to fight the decisions county have made. Their decision to fight will mean county spend more money arguing the challenge.

Services are already broken with the increase in need. Recruitment fails, as there aren't enough speech therapists/OTs/CAMHS practitioners etc to employ.

One parent demanding extra from one of these services means another child gets less.

One parent demanding a child goes to school X at £100k per year when a place at school Y at £30k is going to meet their needs means the child who needs the place at school X doesn't get it, and extra £70k per year is wasted. And the parent keeps their child out of school for 12-18 months whilst they fight for the place at school X.

That's the reality.

Every parent wants the world for their child. I understand that. But taxpayers can't afford to give every child the world.

AIBU - parents know their child best and we should fund what the parents say the child needs

YANBU - there's only so much money to go around and parents need to accept hard decisions have to be made without challenging them

SENDIST do consider costs via the incompatible with the efficient use of resources element or the unreasonable public expenditure element where they are relevant to the case. The problem is bar for these is higher than LAs and some schools would prefer.

I have seen this too! It's almost as if, in some cases, additional support being given means the parents don't try, when really school support is one small piece of the puzzle. We try allsorts at home and share any successful strategies with school, we also continue OT, speech, social training and physio at home especially during holidays.

Just wanted to add we do this on top of working!

100k I believe. I spent a day at a special school during teacher training run by a charitable trust that was charging out at that level.

The kids had a very high level of need. The place and staff were incredible. It was a really inspiring day.

She deserves an education she does not attend 50 percent of the time because she is sick not out of choice.
the issue with being in a mainstream school - she has been in one for the whole of primary school is that 2 months of at a go and then trying to go back is a huge issue with her due to autism. She loves school but it is hard for her to access.

she in mainstream primary school always had a full time 1-1 that was hers only who also came home on days she couldn’t attend to do school work etc,

we had to shuffle things around for secondary school if she didn’t need it she wouldn’t have been given it.

Well.....the Equality Act 2010 does mean that their employers will be required to make reasonable adjustments for them when they are older.

For example making changes to the workplace, altering working arrangements, finding alternative ways for them to perform tasks and providing equipment, services, or support.

Exactly. The decision can't be made in a bubble. It has costs consequences and is forcing local authorities into a financial death spiral

Or perhaps the usual taxi driver did not show up/it was a red car rather than a blue one etc etc and the child went to pieces because of the change of routine? Perhaps they had a massive meltdown as a result?

Perhaps it is necessary for some children to get extra and professional help with basics like tying a shoelace?

Perhaps the fact that this doesn’t happen in your house, is not a widespread indicator of everyone else’s experiences?

This
I don’t understand the whole if a child goes to school x instead of school Y then someone who needs school X won’t be able to makes 0 sense 🤣 the child who is in school X would not be there unless needed !

I think you misunderstood me.
I know what the law is at present.
My argument is that it needs to be changed so that support can get to those who need it most more quickly.
At present there are many sharp elbowed parents using legislation that was written to provide bespoke provision for the most complex of disabled learners to secure incredibly high and individualised levels of provision for their children who have only mild/moderate SEND.
Legally they can do that. Hence the fact he I believe the law needs to be changed.

Legally you are not in the wrong using a tribunal to chase these sorts of things, but ethically I think it is wrong.
It is also one of the main things clogging up the system, cashing huge funding deficits and delaying support.

I have seen tribunals make shit decisions. E.g. saying that a 30k cost difference was not adequate to dismiss the parents' choice of school over the LAs (where both can meet need).
30k would pay for nearly 3 maintained special school places.
They are decision making without any financial responsibility and it shows.

But to then demand home ed for some of the time when that place could have been taken by another child full time is quite entitled.

So how do you suggest @Keepgoing2022’s DD is receives a suitable full-time education? If a state school could meet needs, a wholly independent SS would not have be named. A full EOTAS/EOTIS package wouldn’t legally be possible since it isn’t inappropriate for provision can be made in a school some of the time. And parents can’t be forced to EHE.

The pont is we discussed their reasons not to. And it was not because they feared their child would become dysregulated at going in mums car rather than the taxi. They stated it was because they didn't feel it was their job.

Also getting your child to a scheme in the summer holidays is often hell on earth, especially if they are on the autistic spectrum. I would love my children to go to some SEN scheme. Back in the real world, it’s highly distressing for them. Most are not well designed. To be fair, you or I would probably not relish being dropped with a bunch of strangers (esp as a child having no autonomy) for the next week, no matter how well meaning they are.

You have a huge (possibly naive) amount of faith in the decision making of the tribunal being infallible. It's very easy to say yes to everything when you don't pay for it and don't have to find places for the children pushed down the queue by handing a gold plated option to the most sharp elbowed.

A graduated transition to the new school would be reasonable, but picking and choosing like you're in a sweet shop isn't. And it is not preparing your child for real life.

There is more to it than that though

my daughter who is academically able and probably to a lot of you “ high functioning “ has much more going on than meets the eye.

we are in the middle of changing from a mainstream primary school with EHCP to a non section 41 independent Sen secondary school in London.

the actual cost difference to the entire local authority between her primary school current education and the new one was actually 6k a year and she would benefit far more from it and succeed better grades meaning she had a better chance at securing a future and paying tax 🤷‍♂️

Our LA tried to place my son in the local comprehensive with an SEN unit. The school refused to take him (as did all of the other nearby mainstream schools) but the LA intended to place him there anyway. The school stated that he would need two special support assistants because he couldn’t be left alone for a single second. He wouldn’t have access to the lifts because they were for wheelchair using students only, so he’d be utterly exhausted by walking up four flights of stairs multiple times per day. He would be expected to arrive at each lesson five minutes late and leave five minutes early to avoid being crushed in the corridors. If he wasn’t able to enter a crowded noisy classroom then he could stand in the corridor and learn through the window in the classroom door.

That would certainly have been bespoke. It wasn’t an education though.

ETA it would also have cost more than the specialist independent education he (eventually) received instead.

Can you not find your DS a chimney to sweep, rather than waste the tax payers’ money? Some other child could be availing of that place, you selfish, sharp elbowed so-and-so.

What baffles me is why send children and parents are the scapegoats of a failing system? Oh send kids cost too much, we need to cut spending (which will be cutting their legal rights) that will fix everything. Except it won't.

Our education system is no longer fit for purpose and it's severely underfunded. Ofsted are too focussed on academic results than schools having happy well rounded children who are making progress in all areas.

Better education funding would mean better early support and intervention for Sen children without EHCPs being needed and would also reduce the escalation of issues which then require expensive provision. I haven't looked at figures but I'll eat my hat if there isn't a direct correlation between cuts to education funding and the rise in statements/EHCPs and more specialist schools being needed. NHS cuts probably haven't helped either. Why is no one campaigning for better education funding? Why does no one look at the bigger picture?

We're already seeing the impact of such cuts with the rise in pip applications and people on lwrca, but rather than look at the actual problems and fix them it's just 'how can we save money'. No one will benefit from saving money if the system isn't fixed. It will save money now but we'll be paying twice as much to fix it in the future. We're just kicking the problem down the road.

YANBU. My sister is one of these parents. Niece has ‘suspected ADHD’ by suspected, I mean my sister fought the school 3 times to get them to fill the form in, when they insisted niece did not, eventually they lied on the form to get her on the waiting list to stop sister kicking off constantly. Niece seems perfectly fine, only ‘symptoms’ are that she talks a lot and gets angry when she doesn’t get her own way.
2 years on and she’s still on the waiting list but every week sis tells me about a new thing she’s faught for at school. A free laptop, counselling, 1-1 sessions, sessions with support dog etc.
Havent RTFT but assuming this sort of thing is common atm, with parents rushing to get their child treated as special. Which doesn’t help those who actually need it as the funding comes out of their budgets. DSis also says now niece is on the waiting list she’s guaranteed to get a diagnosis, especially with all the ‘evidence’ of extra support that she ‘needs’. I assume once she does, that’s more money, time and resources to go towards a child that does not struggle anymore than the average teen, but has a competent mother who knows how to work it.

To be honest your first post makes it sound like you demanded this against the will of the LA.
The second post makes it sound like they being really helpful in sorting this out.
Nobody is suggesting children who need a special school should have one.
It sounds like you view the LA as an adversary even when you are getting what you feel she needs. Not sure what point you are trying to make?

🤣🤣 yes I probably could !

this is on the governing bodies I'm afraid. More money needs pumping into SEN resources and CAMHS. I don't think this is on the parents.

Nope we had to fight for her place. This post was about the fact that actually it wasn’t anywhere near 30k more expensive.
when we appealed we proved there was a 6k difference
and I then said I would take over transport lowering it to 3k difference between her going to a mainstream and an independent Sen schooo based on her section F requirement.

This sort of silliness adds nothing.to an important debate.

@CleverButScatty, as I and @HollyBerryz have posted, if SENDIST had erred in law, LAs would be quick to challenge the decision. That is not naive. It is true,

SENDIST don’t just say yes to everything. Neither does it secure a gold-plated education - as I posted, DC aren’t entitled to the best possible education.

Strangely a graduated transition to a new school doesn’t magically make medical needs disappear. Having a medical condition or conditions that prevent full-time school isn’t about picking and choosing.

Ah. And this was a response to the case I mentioned where the difference was 30k. I get you now.
The case I mentioned were two fully costed options including transport and that actual difference was 30k, so not the same at all.

After your update understand your frustration about your daughter's case.