SEN funding isn't a bottomless money pit

[Sogfree]

I'll preface this by saying I really enjoy my job working in a SEN school. I care deeply for the children and families I work with.

I've had 4 different conversations this week with parents where they expect an excessive amount of additional resource to be allocated to their child. They expect this as, in their opinion, it's needed. I disagree with 3 of the 4 parents that this is needed.

All 4 of the parents are going to fight the decisions county have made. Their decision to fight will mean county spend more money arguing the challenge.

Services are already broken with the increase in need. Recruitment fails, as there aren't enough speech therapists/OTs/CAMHS practitioners etc to employ.

One parent demanding extra from one of these services means another child gets less.

One parent demanding a child goes to school X at £100k per year when a place at school Y at £30k is going to meet their needs means the child who needs the place at school X doesn't get it, and extra £70k per year is wasted. And the parent keeps their child out of school for 12-18 months whilst they fight for the place at school X.

That's the reality.

Every parent wants the world for their child. I understand that. But taxpayers can't afford to give every child the world.

AIBU - parents know their child best and we should fund what the parents say the child needs

YANBU - there's only so much money to go around and parents need to accept hard decisions have to be made without challenging them

I don’t think you need your bin taken out by the local authority. It’s not strictly necessary. You could drive it to the local recycling centre. It’s entirely reasonable. There are cutbacks needed everywhere. We could start right there. We could look at all the other local authority services. My local authority is giving money to shops for their frontage to be updated. Let’s scrap that.

You are wanting to make a political choice to disadvantage a young, vulnerable disabled person. We don’t “have to” kick young vulnerable people in the teeth at all and affect their lifelong wellbeing.

If I was a TA asked to do physio I wouldn’t be happy as it’s a responsibility

if it was regular exercises recommended by a physio then the parents should be doing that

Governments don’t exist in a vacuum. They are not able to unilaterally make changes.

Mrs Thatcher thought they could, before her embarrassing poll tax debacle where she lost her career. It has been a long time since we heard of the poll tax hasn’t it? It was “inevitable” at one stage.

There are kids whose education is costing the taxpayer £5 million every year. It’s just not sustainable. It doesn’t mean people don’t give a shit, it’s an acknowledgment that there’s isn’t a bottomless pit of money.

There are?! Surely this must be a teeny number? How does it compare to those who are EBSA or HE? I can't help thinking the govt must be ahead on this given the large numbers in those groups.

This. And we need A system that prevents that.

I don't think we need roads do we really? They're bad for the environment.

someone’s education is 5m a year?!

Most independent SEN schools simply catering for kids who can't cope with mainstream charge 50-100k per year.
You can easily see there are extreme costs for those who have. A completely individualised package.

That isn’t £5 million a year though?

I will probably get flamed for this but here goes!

Completely agree with op. My kid is in mainstream and has had an EHCP since reception, I haven't had to fight for extra support or referrals as their needs are clear and school have done a great job trying to meet them with limited resources, I would love for there to be more support in place but the reality is there isn't enough money so I accept what we have. There are other parents at our school are jealous of the support/funding given to us, all of the parents that have approached me, and there have been quite a few, have children who are academically capable, have age appropriate social and physical skills, my kid does not, yet many of them frequently ask for extra support, bespoke adjustments and additional funding. So much money is spent on tribunals when a child is deemed to not require additional support it's breaking the system.

Things need to change, more money is needed, more SEN schools are needed but also, in my experience, there is such a sense of entitlement amongst parents which is trickling down to a lot of these children who will grow up feeling like the world needs to make adjustments for them.

I highly doubt this and IF it's true they must have extremely complex and severe needs. Plus they'd be in a huge minority!

You can't seriously be suggesting that finding is cut from the NHS ?

Half the problem is how funded the NHS is... If early identification and intervention were raking place with SALT, OT, Physio, CAMHS, autism/ADHD assessment and management there wouldn't. E anything like the number of kids in crisis.

If you pull funding from the NHS more kids will hit crisis point.

I did see a flurry of press critising an LA that were spending 2.5 million on one child a couple of years back. But not heard of 5million!

I think it was a 52 week placement for a child with autism, medical needs and challenging behaviour.

I do know some areas have outsourced all thier children's home provision to private companies, who unsurprisingly do make a profit. It is a bit scandolous really.

I agree with you 100% but we'll get called all sorts for doing so

It won't be 5 million.

Being in a ICU bed in hospital for a year is about 500k.

The OP sounds like the SENCO at my child 's school- but it isn't an SEN school. She rolled her eyes when I had my child assessed by an EP, apparently " questioned" the funding level of my child's EHCP but the messages had " disappeared" and actually said " no comment" when I asked her if she agreed my child needed a specialist school.
Can't wait to get out of that school.

If there's a lack of funding, why don't you save the LA money and find a different job where you can be fully supportive in what you do rather than come on Mumsnet and slate parents.

if it was regular exercises recommended by a physio then the parents should be doing that

Not if it is in F an EHCP, which it should be if it educates or trains.

You are not the one handing out the funding ?

if you are not supporting parents fighting for their kids then you are in the wrong job

wait until it’s your child in need your attitude may change

That's not true or factual though is it, because if they're deemed not to need the support tribunal won't order it. LA's win about 1% of tribunals.

'In 2023-24, SENDIST panels upheld the local authority’s original decision in just 150 of the 11,157 appeals that went to a full hearing. That’s an LA success rate of 1.3% - the lowest on record.

The cost to the public purse of defending the indefensible? Over £165 million in the last academic year alone, and more than £600 million over the last decade'

https://www.specialneedsjungle.com/55-rise-2024-send-tribunal-appeals-cost-families-incalculable/

I agree.

Another thing that I have noticed as both a professional and SEND parent, is that SOME parents, once they get an EHCP/special school expect most aspects of raising their child to be provided by some sort of service.

For example, I know at my son's special school parents who have kept their child off when the driver of their taxi was off sick. This is a group of parents who don't work/ work very flexibly and all drive. They categorically wouldn't drive their child to school for that one day because they don't consider that their job.

The local authority arrange activity weeks for SEND Children in the holidays and they are lovely, archery, arts and crafts, sports, outdoor rangers stuff. All free if you have an EHCP (think it's part of HAF/short breaks provision). Hardly anyone went and several parents were clear about the fact that they wouldn't do it unless there was a taxi service to and from home. Again this is parents who drive, don't work or work very part time. They were clear about the fact that they basically felt someone should scoop their child up each morning and return them each evening, until adulthood.

I have heard complaints that their child hasn't been taught to tie laces, do buttons etc. this isn't a PMLD school and whilst some motor skills work is appropriate these are parents' jobs.

Paying and providing transport to extra curriculars, learning to drive etc .. this is part of being a parent not education.

The tribunal can order what they like without reference to cost... Because they are not bloody paying for it!
If the LA could Gree all these lovely placements etc whilst someone else picked up the bill I am sure they would.
A tribunal system which gives powers to make orders without any reference to finances or other children in the borough is part of the problem.

Im one of “ those parents “
child academically able but has Sen and complex medical needs. I point blank refused the mainstream setting for secondary school and she is now going to be attending the perfect school which is an independent non section 41 Sen school which caters for higher ability Sen children and mainstream curriculum but with built in ot/ speech etc
much smaller setting and amazing facilities.
she will only attend around 50 percent of the time so on top of that I pushed for home education when needed which we also won.
anything else I think not her teacher but I think she needs I will fight for.

As a parent it's your job to care only about your daughter, that's right and proper.
Decision makers as t the local authority must consider the needs of the whole cohort of learners and try to balance the needs of everyone.

I have to be honest, as the parent of a SEND child I do judge you a bit. Not for the school you have secured. Being able to attend a setting that they can achieve in is something every child should have. But to then demand home ed for some of the time when that place could have been taken by another child full time is quite entitled.

You have to keep in mind the end goal, of helping your daughter become a fully functioning adult in the wider world.

No. They can't.

If the school a parent presents and a school the LA present can both meet needs, the Tribunal will look at the costs of each. There can be a small disregard if the benefit outweighs the small additional costs, otherwise they will name the cheaper school.

There's numerous case law around this, there's also legislation around it.

If a school is being named without costs being considered it's because it was found one of the proposed schools could not meet needs. If Tribunals were naming schools without following the correct legal process LAs would be appealing left right and centre, but they're not, because this simply isn't happening.

Parents are simply enforcing their children's LEGAL rights, in COURTS OF LAW, they are not demanding things and just getting them handed to them on a plate.