SEN funding isn't a bottomless money pit

[Sogfree]

I'll preface this by saying I really enjoy my job working in a SEN school. I care deeply for the children and families I work with.

I've had 4 different conversations this week with parents where they expect an excessive amount of additional resource to be allocated to their child. They expect this as, in their opinion, it's needed. I disagree with 3 of the 4 parents that this is needed.

All 4 of the parents are going to fight the decisions county have made. Their decision to fight will mean county spend more money arguing the challenge.

Services are already broken with the increase in need. Recruitment fails, as there aren't enough speech therapists/OTs/CAMHS practitioners etc to employ.

One parent demanding extra from one of these services means another child gets less.

One parent demanding a child goes to school X at £100k per year when a place at school Y at £30k is going to meet their needs means the child who needs the place at school X doesn't get it, and extra £70k per year is wasted. And the parent keeps their child out of school for 12-18 months whilst they fight for the place at school X.

That's the reality.

Every parent wants the world for their child. I understand that. But taxpayers can't afford to give every child the world.

AIBU - parents know their child best and we should fund what the parents say the child needs

YANBU - there's only so much money to go around and parents need to accept hard decisions have to be made without challenging them

Ok.
The changes are coming because what you are arguing for isn't sustainable without a magic money pit.
We all wish it was though. I say that's a SEND parent and as a professional. Nobody takes any pleasure in the limitations of the system.

Nobody takes any pleasure in the limitations of the system.

Oh, some do.

A “financial death spiral” indeed!

What’s the name of that campaign organisation that the local authorities jointly fund to pump out their psyops propaganda about SEN children costing too much?

Even they would aspire to such a dramatic phrase!

So why didn't the LA appeal if the cost difference was unreasonable?

Is it just parents of send CYP who ensure their children receive their basic human right to education you like to call sharp elbowed? Or do you tell people who fight for any other human right they're sharp elbowed too?

I'm not saying your son should have gone there for a second, but this is a good example of mainstreams being hostile to SEND learners.

'he can't use the lifts because they are for wheelchair users??!
I see this sort of thing frequently and they might as well just write 'we don't want your crappy SEND child at out lovely school with the smart uniform, loud bells and top drawer GCSE results'.

This is a clear example where a minor shift in mindset by a mainstream could make it a very different proposition.

You can refuse to believe it all you like.

But I have seen the services, hugely vital lifelines, that have already been slashed. Through the charity I volunteer for we try to plug some of the gaps in our area, but the cuts are so wholesale. No real libraries now, no finding for bus services, or road repairs, slashing bin collections, no longer funding youth groups

Funds need to be fairly distributed across all the different groups that need them

Honestly because there is little point, the tribunals massively favour the parents. They just place them as per the order and get on with the job of trying to sort things out for the several thousand other learners they are responsible for.

Your second pint makes you sound hysterical and childish. I have suggested that we need to ensure that everyone has the basics before anyone gets extras and you have interpreted this as me wanting to deny people human rights.

It's ok, I read this kind of shit daily. I'm immune to it.

This is it, If mainstream la schools were more adaptive then people wouldn’t need to seek out more expensive alternatives.

we were happy with the la maintained Sen school and the la were happy with it to but the school refused her which meant that the only other alternative in the local authority was a mainstream secondary school and I wouldn’t mind her attending one if they were willing to be adaptive for her but they agreed to meet her needs and then declined any adaptive measures.

we then seeked the independent school and we recently had a meeting about things needing to be put in place - this school are a mild Sen school but independent but have never had a child with as complex needs as daughter and in the meeting there was not a single no but a we will make that work 100 percent.

Hardly anyone went and several parents were clear about the fact that they wouldn't do it unless there was a taxi service to and from home. Again this is parents who drive, don't work or work very part time. They were clear about the fact that they basically felt someone should scoop their child up each morning and return them each evening, until adulthood.

Yup. I have met many parents like this. Wonder what the mobility car is for if their child never sets foot inside it.

It's often the ones who are busy working who do the most.

to get a mobility car is extremely hard and it is not something all children who are disabled have.
my daughter has autism / cerebral palsy - 2 organ failing amongst other things and we are not entitled to one.

That might be the case. I was clearly referencing my experiences of those who have one and yet don’t use it for transporting their child.

It's worth noting that parents are deemed to have "won" the tribunal unless the LA position is completely upheld.

Example - I attended a tribunal where a parent had got multiple private assessments and the resulting list of recommended therapies from each individual professional -EP, SALT, OT, behavioural optometry - when grouped together was so extensive that the poor child would never have been in class. In fact he was a fairly typical anxious autistic child, not at all a "one - in -1000 really needs a special individual package" type of kid.

The tribunal agreed with the LA that what amounted to 2 hours plus of individual therapy outside the classroom each school day was not conducive to an efficient education, or to social integration, and parent and her legal representative conceded this too - I don't think she had ever really thought about the actual implications of what she was asking for. However she was deemed to have "won" the tribunal as some additional SALT and OT was negotiated amicably compared to the original EHCP.

So it's not like those 98 percent of tribunal cases the LA is wholly out of order and parents wholly reasonable.

Its not that hard. The percentage of new cars purchased on motability is astounding. 1 in 5 new cars is a motability purchase.

The parents I'm referring to all drive, have access to a car and work very part time or not at all.
They stated this.

Surely what SENDIST do is interpret the law? Like other tribunals? When the employment tribunal finds someone was unfairly dismissed, they don't have to consider if the at-fault employer has the money to pay the compensation, do they?

@OrangePineapple25 holiday clubs are different, but for school transport, parents can’t be forced to use the Motability vehicle even if they have one. SENTAS has an article about this on their website if you want to read it.

It's not the same
Compensation is redress for what a person has experienced.
The SEND tribunal are ordering expensive placements that could go on for a couple of decades based on parental preference because that is of primary importance under the current law.

The UT does not favour parents.

Sadly I couldn’t agree with your initial point more OP. There is not enough funding in this country to pay for our welfare state and sufficiently resource the NHS and schools.

I don’t know the solution. I am glad we have a welfare state and I am happy to pay my taxes to fund public services and support those in need. But it isn’t financially sustainable and we can’t escape from that fact. The increase in SEN diagnosis (which I believe is a good thing and indicative of there being more knowledge/awareness now) does put pressure on school budgets. The funding provided for a 1-1 doesn’t actually cover the cost of a 1-1. So schools have to try and plug the gap/be creative.

I send my ASD child to a mainstream independent school (which I pay for - including VAT). Their needs couldn’t be met in state mainstream and I knew it would take too long to get an EHCP to get them the help they needed in state provision. I also knew the particular small independent school would naturally meet their needs far better than adjustments in a large mainstream school. I thank my lucky stars every day that I can afford this because it has been life changing for my child to be in a school where their needs are being met. I’ve also relieved the pressure on the state by removing them from their educational responsibility. My worst nightmare is the school closing. There are plenty of independent schools near us but none that will meet the needs of my child so I’d likely end up homeschooling.

I absolutely understand why other parents will fight the local authority tooth and nail for what their children need. I would be doing the same if I didn’t have the option of paying for private education.

Then maybe the parents should also contribute much more too? Not everyone feels they should contribute more, I don’t.

Nobody mentioned forcing them. However, why as a parent would you not want to if you were at home and the car was sitting on the drive?

Although @perpetualplatespinning I suspect at this point I could post that black is black and you would immediately pop up to say it's white....

Most children with SEN needs require OT / SLT

some also Physio and extra support in class etc
depending on their sections B and F.
whilst in primary school mainstream my daughter had local authority based OT / SLT and Physio and costing towards an extra staff member etc
this all costs money
moving over to her independent Sen school this is all included in the price of fees.

the gap is much smaller in cost than I ever imagined until I priced it up.

Childrens Trust Tadworth by any chance?

I think the issue with this is then it would also have to be for those with abled children. You can’t request one set to pay towards their child’s education without the other and then you fall in to a means tested education system.