SEN funding isn't a bottomless money pit

[Sogfree]

I'll preface this by saying I really enjoy my job working in a SEN school. I care deeply for the children and families I work with.

I've had 4 different conversations this week with parents where they expect an excessive amount of additional resource to be allocated to their child. They expect this as, in their opinion, it's needed. I disagree with 3 of the 4 parents that this is needed.

All 4 of the parents are going to fight the decisions county have made. Their decision to fight will mean county spend more money arguing the challenge.

Services are already broken with the increase in need. Recruitment fails, as there aren't enough speech therapists/OTs/CAMHS practitioners etc to employ.

One parent demanding extra from one of these services means another child gets less.

One parent demanding a child goes to school X at £100k per year when a place at school Y at £30k is going to meet their needs means the child who needs the place at school X doesn't get it, and extra £70k per year is wasted. And the parent keeps their child out of school for 12-18 months whilst they fight for the place at school X.

That's the reality.

Every parent wants the world for their child. I understand that. But taxpayers can't afford to give every child the world.

AIBU - parents know their child best and we should fund what the parents say the child needs

YANBU - there's only so much money to go around and parents need to accept hard decisions have to be made without challenging them

Yes- I’m not saying any of this is right, but responding to whoever said the m/c children seem to get all the special school places.

Arguably those with more resources do also get more from the NHS because paying for a scan gets you pole-vaulted over the queue for referrals to consultant treatment, and also those with more resources may be better able to advocate for themselves, query things, ask for evidence and so on.

We don’t live in an equitable society, at all, and it keeps getting less equitable. Education is probably key to social mobility but again, it’s such a lottery for some people whether they’ll be well served or not by the system we have.

The problem is @HMart1n that this MH support isn’t available at the moment from the NHS. We need to live in the current real world in working out how to help dc IRL right now.

We know a dm with a teen dd who runs off frequently to isolated places and attempts suicide there. She has had multiple A&E admissions. Very little has been offered from CAMHS apparently. She had to get an EHCP because they weren’t being helped and with that in place the dc has been moved to an appropriate school.

A&E admissions and police call outs are very expensive. Probably cheaper to fund a school placement!

This!

Things will be changing regardless of whether people like it or not. One presumes MS will be a focus as it will be the most cost effective way.

@Foxhasbigsocks has she requested an expedited hearing? If not, she can using a SEND7.

Section 19 provision is provision for compulsory school aged DC unable to attend school. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter she can use. This is separate from the EHCP. If the LA refuse, she or you could post back on MN for advice on next steps.

I voted yabu because you said "this is the reality". It's not reality, it's your opinion.

My child has lost their whole primary education due to unmet needs in school. That's reception to year 6. They are now year 7 and have never stepped foot in the school. The school can't or won't implement their ehcp. We've been stuck in the tribunal process for nearly 5 years, the school and la have failed to offer any provision in this time.

The la are actually arguing for a special school that will cost them more than the eotas package we are asking for.

Just because you advocate doesn't mean you'll get, and you going without doesn't mean someone else's child will get whatever it is.

I can only speak for myself but I've spent a lot of time advocating for other people's children, in my teaching job and helping people know what to do, helping write wording for ECHNAs etc.

Any school can provide that with training and funding.

No, they can’t. If you think this you don’t understand the scope of what provision is classed as SEP,

Anything they can’t needs to be provided by MH services.

Thankfully, legally, this isn’t true. Health care provision which educates or trains is deemed to be special educational provision.

Schools and the education system shouldn’t be picking up and funding the inadequacies of the MH system.

That needs to be improved and presumably will
also be looked at.

@HMart1n no ms school I know locally will take a dc with a history of self harming on school premises as they will be concerned they can’t keep them safe.

This. In the not so old days, the few kids that were really academic went to uni to be doctors, dentists etc, the average kids went into average careers and worked their way up that way and the non-academic, and in some cases out-rightly destructive, kids when into 'hands on' trades and now vastly out earn their more academic peers despite never having a hope in hell of passing GCSE maths and, most certainly, English... then or now!. As one poster said previously, pushing all kids down the same route means more fall off and into the SEN pool. This is true and, just because they fall off, does not necessarily need an intervention costing the tax payer £££££s and taking limited funds from the most in need - it just needs an alternative route.

What if horse riding is the cheaper option?

My child hasn’t needed this, but I know some who do, and a weekly riding lesson (1 hour) does more than physio and OT in terms of core strength, sensory integration and speech progression, and for a fraction of the cost.

A cheaper alternative that gives all those benefits very often does not exist.

This debate really just shows that before even thinking about reducing spending so much would need to be put in place. More specialist state schools catering for these dc, much better child and adolescent mental health services.

They are experts at watching their kid hyperventilate at 3am because they have to go to a school which is not fit for purpose, because some bean counter in the local authority says it’s for the best.

If Labour go ahead on cuts to this state education will get worse for so many dc, not just those with SEN.

@HellsBells1989 I agree

SEND parents in this country provide hours upon hours of unpaid care for dc who should be in respite, should have MH support, should be in appropriate schooling.

OK well the thing is that education funding has fallen in real terms per head over the entire 15 years I've been teaching.

Even returning budgets to 2010 would be politically completely implausible.

It would have been better to subsidise the private schools and require a % of SEN places! Before anyone jumps on me, that's the actual NHS policy to get waiting lists down safely: outsource to private providers.

Not true. They’re not banned and written off for life. 🤔My dc appears to be in MS school and most certainly didn’t need a bespoke private education .With the right MH treatment and support risk changes.

It's also the case for other types of sen.

No mainstream school would have my child on site and no maintained special school would either.

I didn't actually want to have a bespoke private education but it was that or NO education. There was literally nothing else on the table. Everywhere said no, no, no. I didn't pay for private reports, queue jump etc. The LA and his original school did it all. It was thier own recommendations.

His education isn't actually bespoke, but it is private. It's not 100k either.

There is lots of legislation and case law around costs which tribunals MUST consider. Saying tribunals don't consider this is inaccurate and wrong.

No it wouldn’t. It’s well known that SEN provision in the private sector is often dire. So a poor use of funding two fold.

Many of these children don’t need special schools. Many just need a school that doesn’t harm them in the first place.

My daughter is autistic and self harmed, this started when the pressure was massively piled on for GCSEs. It was entirely unnecessary. It wasn’t motivational pressure, it was “work hard or suffer for the rest of your life”, “work hard or you’ll be put in isolation” “work hard or be a loser” kind of pressure.
It didn’t need to happen.

Many children school refuse because of bullying, because school is now not safe, because of pressure, because of unattainable rules and unrealistic absence targets. All of these things could be fixed. But effort and money are thrown at the problem whilst sticking heads in sand and ignoring it!

I can assure you it is true in this area. I was told this by the SENCO who had said no.

What ms secondary is going to say they can meet need for a dc harming themselves at school?

Perhaps there ought to be more transparency all around.

I see a lot of frustration in parent groups because schools can't or don't or won't meet or understand their child's needs, or they feel blamed or criticised or unsupported by school.

I see a lot of frustration from teachers claiming that parents are asking too much or are not doing the things which they could do or aren't supporting the school.

It just feels a bit like everyone is frustrated because they don't have a full picture of what the other party's perspective and existing knowledge and abilities are.

When you're a parent you don't have child development training or knowledge of the SEN system or what is normal, available or expected. And you don't know what you don't know. Something that seems obvious to a teacher was new to them once, and it might be new to the parent.

most certainly didn’t need a bespoke private education

Brilliant for you and her. Some do.