SEN funding isn't a bottomless money pit

[Sogfree]

I'll preface this by saying I really enjoy my job working in a SEN school. I care deeply for the children and families I work with.

I've had 4 different conversations this week with parents where they expect an excessive amount of additional resource to be allocated to their child. They expect this as, in their opinion, it's needed. I disagree with 3 of the 4 parents that this is needed.

All 4 of the parents are going to fight the decisions county have made. Their decision to fight will mean county spend more money arguing the challenge.

Services are already broken with the increase in need. Recruitment fails, as there aren't enough speech therapists/OTs/CAMHS practitioners etc to employ.

One parent demanding extra from one of these services means another child gets less.

One parent demanding a child goes to school X at £100k per year when a place at school Y at £30k is going to meet their needs means the child who needs the place at school X doesn't get it, and extra £70k per year is wasted. And the parent keeps their child out of school for 12-18 months whilst they fight for the place at school X.

That's the reality.

Every parent wants the world for their child. I understand that. But taxpayers can't afford to give every child the world.

AIBU - parents know their child best and we should fund what the parents say the child needs

YANBU - there's only so much money to go around and parents need to accept hard decisions have to be made without challenging them

I think we can all agree that the whole educational system in this country is not fit for purpose. Wholesale review is needed and I would argue for tearing up some of the ‘accepted wisdoms’ and actually going with some ideas that are right outside the box, because so many children and teachers are let down and damaged by the system we have at the moment.

Well we can’t afford to privately educated a few at a cost to the majority. It needs to stop. Those within the SEN sector and the many parents grateful for the little they get( in comparison to those with the sharpest elbows ) agree with others calling for change.

@AlertCat without parents to fight no child would get the place, that is the reality. We know children left waiting 2-3 years for a special school place falling further and further behind. If you go to tribunal the order forces the LA to find proper education. That is the only solution open to these parents.

@HMart1n where do you think they should go though? There are no places for them.

Do give over my child was the child in the toilet as are many others however I’m not so blinkered and greedy that I can’t accept the money isn’t there for all to have a bespoke private education.

My ordinary mixed secondary school had for the girls’ sports in the 70s:

1.open air heated swimming pool
2.netball/tennis courts
3.two hockey pitches, a rounders pitch and athletics sandpits on the school playing field
4.a gym with rope ladders, climbing frames, etc where we did gym, and non stop netball
5.one of two school halls, where we did country dancing

The boys must have played rugby and cricket somewhere else, because they weren’t on the school field. Obviously they did cross country in the countryside, because the school was in a village.

Home educating parents cannot hope to replicate all that; not least because there were enough girls in my year (probably at least 45) to be using two hockey pitches simultaneously. Imo, a gym membership would go someway to making up for that loss of school experience and promotion of fitness.

Actually, two DC in our local comprehensive had the choice of walking down to the local leisure centre to do the PE of their choice in the 6th form - which would have included the gym, swimming pool, keep fit classes, etc. They recognised some girls were never going to participate in team games as adults, so better to let them do keep fit, etc.

That is in part because state schools often won't let wealthier parents pay for extras their children need, as has been detailed on this thread; plus that being able to spend hundreds of hours fighting a legal case requires savings: for me it was a 2 day a week "job" on top of my 3 day a week actual teaching job.

It will be fun once people start applying these arguments to the NHS, won't it?

@HMart1n but these kids have no school places? I know someone who can’t go out at all because she’s a single mother. Her dd is out of school as she’s mentally ill and she has to stay at home 24 hours with her. Her LA hasn’t been able to provide a placement and that dd has had no schooling for over a year. Wouldn’t you support a specialist school for a dd like that?

Some within the SEN sector…

Fixed that for you. Many do not think that way because they understand if you ban funding independent MS, lots of DC will end up in more expensive SS placements or with expensive EOTAS/EOTIS/C packages. Banning independent MS being funded doesn’t magically make state MS suitable.

This addresses a very different issue. The inequality that’s highlighted in situations like this.

Have you ever been involved in the planning part of an EHCP? Filling in a DLA form? It feels like having a disabled child requires the mother (it’s usually mothers who do all this work) to be highly educated. If you are not, or if you have your own communication issues (ASD and adhd are both hereditary) it’s so much more difficult.

Apparent middle class parents are more easily able to advocate for their children than those who are more deprived because that’s the way the system is set up - if it wasn’t the money spent on DLA and various supports would be far more. I’m not saying this is a good thing, it’s horrific that so many go without support because the work involved in getting it is so hard.

It should be an equal playing field for all. A system set up that means all needs are able to be met. A system that doesn’t rely on a high level of parental education in order for their child’s needs to be met.

Edited to add: I am just about able to do these things for my family. I am autistic and struggle with the meetings. Most of all I struggle with the gaslighting and dishonesty from schools and so-called professionals, which left me with ptsd like mental health issues, which makes the whole thing more difficult to handle.

No- been there and got the T-shirt.

Said child needs MH provision not a bespoke private education.

How is that even a remotely rational response to what was said.

I'm really sorry to hear that. I hope things improved?

I think there's a significant middle ground between "exclude anyone self-harming in the toilets" and "a bespoke private education." Isn't there?

Advocating for the provision their DC needs doesn’t make parents ‘blinkered and greedy’.

Current SEN funding is unsustainable, and widely tipped to be the next thing on the chopping block.

It does when it’s an unreasonable request and takes from others equally needy/more needy.

@OrangePineapple25 i think it’s rational to point out that being middle class doesn’t help a child receiving cancer treatment or a child receiving specialist education. While they may have mc privilege both are in other ways very very vulnerable.

One of the most vulnerable children I can think of locally has mc parents and I really fear for his future. He is just as deserving of support as any vulnerable dc.

My husband has the same SEN profile as our daughter we think (he's not been assessed) and his schools found him an asset not a pain.

There is absolutely no way he could have got an EHCP for her.

@HMart1n the therapeutic MH provision is special educational provision.

@Foxhasbigsocks has your friend appealed to SENDIST and asked for an expedited hearing? Has she requested s19 provision (this doesn’t have to be traditional education. It can be therapeutic)?

@HMart1n parents don’t get provision that is legally unreasonable.

Yes which parents need to accept. Provision in MS and better/more MH support. Far better to put more funding into MH for the majority than private dictation for a few.

@perpetualplatespinning she got help from a local charity and they advised a SEND tribunal appeal for an EOTAS package which she had done. I don’t know what 19 is?

Any school can provide that with training and funding.

Anything they can’t needs to be provided by MH services.

What would help is more staff in mainstream, my children's primary school has one TA for 4 classes!
They have no money!
I don't know if it's due to the government not funding enough or the trust not using the money appropriately or both!

We need more sen units in mainstream, a lot of children could be supported there if they were given more funding,training,staff, but they don't so then children get to a point they just can not cope and then have to go to specialist which is a lot more money long term.

Early help should be paramount and sure start or equivalent should be still available, they were a life line to a lot of families esp including families that needed support and help with children with sen (and parents who also had needs).

We are throwing money (if your lucky after fighting years to get it) after things go so wrong, never helping before crisis.
That's part of the problem, I see it time and time again.

We all want what's best for our children, and if you havent been there you really won't understand how bloody hard it is to fight, but fighting for all children to get an education they deserve will benefit all in the long term.

I never said they weren't deserving of support. I said the current system doesn't work because a disproportionate amount of the support makes its way to MC children with SEN