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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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9
2dogsandabudgie · 07/06/2025 09:23

MiloMinderbinder925 · 07/06/2025 08:54

How do you know the staff's political affiliations? Why should they listen to some far right nut who encapsulates intolerance for the sake of tolerance?

The staff are there to do their job. They don't have to listen to his views, just serve food and drinks, they're not going to be hovering around the table are they?

I think banning people because you think they are odious and don't agree with them is a dangerous path to go down, where does it end?

PandoraSocks · 07/06/2025 09:24

Wow. This thread is eye opening. But very useful.

Jujujudo · 07/06/2025 09:28

StressedStepmum36 · 07/06/2025 09:06

No, not “so what” if he’s Islamophobic.

It is as bad to be Islamophobic as it is to be antisemitic. There is no right or wrong racism or persecution, it is all bad.

I don’t believe the way you’re being treated is acceptable, but it’s not any worse or better than attacking a Muslim for being a Muslim.

I wouldn’t want to be in Tommys company, because he’s a racist idiot. I wouldn’t want to be in the company of any of the people you’ve just described either, for much the same reason.

You seem to have completely missed my point.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 07/06/2025 09:31

2dogsandabudgie · 07/06/2025 09:23

The staff are there to do their job. They don't have to listen to his views, just serve food and drinks, they're not going to be hovering around the table are they?

I think banning people because you think they are odious and don't agree with them is a dangerous path to go down, where does it end?

They have a right not to serve anyone they like as long as it's not discriminatory. Would you have the same opinion if Jewish staff refused to serve a well known anti semite? Antisemitism is not a protected belief before you go down that route.

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 07/06/2025 09:32

Tauranga · 07/06/2025 08:45

There was a study done which showed that right of centre people listened to opposition and debate, where as left leaning folks didn't listen to the other opinion and just shut debates down.
I didn't believe it at the time but I see it more and more. This is a prime example.

[citation needed]

Jujujudo · 07/06/2025 09:32

Dangermoo · 07/06/2025 09:09

@jujujudo It's not considered trendy enough to support the Jewish community in the fight against antisemitism. Nuance is always conveniently available. The disgraceful experiences you've shared should be hitting home to every bleeding heart liberal who pick and choose their crusades.

I’m willing to bet money that most of them have written at least one of those phrases online. I’m past expecting understating or sympathy, simply because it’s so sanitised and normal. The moment someone even breathes an anti Muslim/black trope, all hell breaks loose. But apparently being antisemitic is debatable, nuanced and justified. Jews are less human, less worthy than blacks, trans, Muslims, whatever.

StressedStepmum36 · 07/06/2025 09:33

Jujujudo · 07/06/2025 09:28

You seem to have completely missed my point.

People are racist and discriminatory every day - the things you described are happening to your family are truly disgusting.

That doesn’t mean the rest of us have to want people who behave like that in our environment.

ColinCaterpillarsNo1Fan · 07/06/2025 09:33

2dogsandabudgie · 07/06/2025 09:23

The staff are there to do their job. They don't have to listen to his views, just serve food and drinks, they're not going to be hovering around the table are they?

I think banning people because you think they are odious and don't agree with them is a dangerous path to go down, where does it end?

You clearly don't understand the intimidation & aggression an ethnic minority person might feel when dealing with a person who clearly hates them for the colour of their skin. Do you think racists will keep their mouths shut whilst being served by someone from a differentrace/colour? No, they're mostly likely to be hyperfocused on that person, trying to find a fault or making very pointed comments.

It's not as simple they're there to do their job and not listen to his political views. His views influences his behavior towards others, the two are not mutually exclusive. Similar to the way Andrew Tate treats women, his views influences his behaviour towards women.

HeadDeskHeadDesk · 07/06/2025 09:33

MiloMinderbinder925 · 06/06/2025 20:56

I've seen some of Silenced. It seems to be about persecuting a vulnerable child while dressed up as a search for truth.

By 'some' how much? I think instead of watching 'some' and then talking about what it 'seems' to be about, you should watch ALL of it and then come back and talk about what it's actually about. I have a feeling that most of your opinion has been gleaned from reading other people's opinions on it, rather than on forming your own opinion based on the documentary itself. That's not very clever, is it?

How on earth do you feel qualified to comment so damningly on something you haven't even properly watched?

Dangermoo · 07/06/2025 09:34

Jujujudo · 07/06/2025 09:32

I’m willing to bet money that most of them have written at least one of those phrases online. I’m past expecting understating or sympathy, simply because it’s so sanitised and normal. The moment someone even breathes an anti Muslim/black trope, all hell breaks loose. But apparently being antisemitic is debatable, nuanced and justified. Jews are less human, less worthy than blacks, trans, Muslims, whatever.

Edited

I hear you and believe me, so do many many others xx

Jujujudo · 07/06/2025 09:35

StressedStepmum36 · 07/06/2025 09:33

People are racist and discriminatory every day - the things you described are happening to your family are truly disgusting.

That doesn’t mean the rest of us have to want people who behave like that in our environment.

I wasn’t aware that TR had said any of the things I described. Again though, not my point.

BIossomtoes · 07/06/2025 09:35

The thing that very few people seem to understand is that this was a business decision. The majority of Hawksmoor customers would not wish to dine expensively in a restaurant that welcomes the likes of Tommy Robinson and would be likely to boycott it. Equally there will be people who applaud Hawksmoor for ejecting him and will be more likely to eat there as a result. It’s called reputation management.

PandoraSocks · 07/06/2025 09:36

2dogsandabudgie · 07/06/2025 09:23

The staff are there to do their job. They don't have to listen to his views, just serve food and drinks, they're not going to be hovering around the table are they?

I think banning people because you think they are odious and don't agree with them is a dangerous path to go down, where does it end?

Get things in perspective. A restaurant decided they didn't want to serve a renowned, far-right activist who has a string of convictions to his name, including assault. That is their right.

How is that a dangerous path and where do you fear it would lead to? Will poor Yaxley-Lennon starve to death?

MiloMinderbinder925 · 07/06/2025 09:37

HeadDeskHeadDesk · 07/06/2025 09:33

By 'some' how much? I think instead of watching 'some' and then talking about what it 'seems' to be about, you should watch ALL of it and then come back and talk about what it's actually about. I have a feeling that most of your opinion has been gleaned from reading other people's opinions on it, rather than on forming your own opinion based on the documentary itself. That's not very clever, is it?

How on earth do you feel qualified to comment so damningly on something you haven't even properly watched?

I don't want to watch it. I watched the beginning which set out his agenda which was that it's all a big conspiracy against him and he needed to find 'the truth' of his persecution of a vulnerable child.

I understand that you're saucer eyed when it comes to Robinson's propaganda but don't assume others are. He was found guilty - yes I know, that's part of the conspiracy.

inkognitha · 07/06/2025 09:38

MatildaMovesMountains · 07/06/2025 09:18

Funny then that most thought-ending clichés are right-wing 🤷‍♀️

Not in 2025, toeing the ideological line, no independent thinking, intolerance, anti-democratic views are behaviours more prevalent among left-leaning voters.

The Left is definitely not the place for intellectual debate, critical thinking or humanism anymore.

Dangermoo · 07/06/2025 09:39

StressedStepmum36 · 07/06/2025 09:33

People are racist and discriminatory every day - the things you described are happening to your family are truly disgusting.

That doesn’t mean the rest of us have to want people who behave like that in our environment.

Has it not occurred to you that the poster's choice of language reflects the distress she, not you, has been through? Unless you've walked a mile in her shoes OR any other group, who faces victimisation and discrimination, you have no idea, none of us do. The patronising from those desperate to be seen as being on the 'right' side merely fuels matters.

JamieCannister · 07/06/2025 09:39

CunningLinguist1 · 06/06/2025 18:09

Restaurants can refuse to serve anyone they want - as long as it's not against the Equality Act. So yup, they could if they so wished refuse to serve someone who voted Tory, if that's their sole reason for refusal.

You cannot discriminate against someone for believing sex is real and matters because that is an opinion Worthy Of Respect In A Democratic Society. Whilst I don;t vote Tory I believe the same thing is true of voting tory. In contrast nazism is not a protected belief

Caerulea · 07/06/2025 09:39

MiloMinderbinder925 · 07/06/2025 07:36

The far right are suspiciously in favour of rights for women when it comes to criticising forrins.

They're also suspiciously against VAWAG when it comes to forrins but not when it comes to them. Robinson has been described as "very nasty and misogynistic".

I think a lot of ppl miss this. They couldn't give a shiny shit about women, we're just tools to further their agenda. They don't care what the gangs actually did or who they did it to, just that they weren't white & it was ignored. But let's be honest, systematic abuse of women IS largely unpunished & ignored.

The way they go on you'd think that rape, abuse & exploitation is a new phenomenon perpetrated by asian men rather than something that's being happening to women for literally all of time. The only common denominator is maleness, not religion, not skin colour. Men.

And here's a newsflash for the ignorant! They couldn't care less about women's spaces or sports either! It's just another opportunity to be bigoted.

JamieCannister · 07/06/2025 09:41

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 06/06/2025 18:14

You can be barred entrance to a restaurant because they don't like your shoes. As long as you're not being barred because of a protected characteristic they're allowed to choose who they wish to do business with.

Edited

And I am saying believing Tory views is protected! Not explicitly, but if put to the test it will be.

I believe TRs views are also protected, but I am less certain

JamieCannister · 07/06/2025 09:42

QurikySparrowHatrack · 06/06/2025 18:43

Yes, but there's a high threshold to be met for a political belief to be deemed projected, and many of Yaxley-Lennon's publicly expressed ones will fall far short. Belief in discrimatory ideologies will almost certainly not be protected, nor would most personal opinions or preferences.

I know that TQ+ ideology is not WORIADS because it is explicitly homophobic and misogynistic, but which of TRs views are not WORIADS? Which views does he have that directly impinge on the rights of others?

JamieCannister · 07/06/2025 09:43

SeriaMau · 06/06/2025 20:08

What?!!!! I think he would be very happy to agree that he is.

Edited

I repeat - any evidence of him being white natonalist?

BIossomtoes · 07/06/2025 09:43

The Left is definitely not the place for intellectual debate, critical thinking or humanism anymore.

Strange that it’s most prevalent in the highest educated in our society, particularly in academia.

JamieCannister · 07/06/2025 09:44

MiniPantherOwner · 06/06/2025 20:36

You absolutely 100% can. It probably wouldn't be a very good idea business wise, as up until recently they were one of the two most voted for parties, but you can.

As someone who worked in hospitality for many years it still amazes me that people think they have some kind of right to be served by a business. You can't refuse to serve someone due to a protected characteristic, but you can refuse for any other reason, from hating their shoes to them being a racist bigoted criminal.

Beliefs are protected if WORIADs

JamieCannister · 07/06/2025 09:44

travellinglighter · 07/06/2025 04:43

It would surprise me if any court would take away a private companies right to refuse to do business with disreputable individuals who can cause reputational damage.

If Tommee ten names posts on social media in front of a Hawksmoor sign, decent human beings could rightly assume that Hawksmoor supports him and avoids the place.

If a business if forced to serve TR it cannot be seen to be morally wrong for doing so

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