To Expect Parents To Be Held More Strongly To Account For Their Children's Behaviour?

[BigFatBully]

I believe that parents should be held more greatly to account for their children's unacceptable behaviour.

For a case study, take the sale of alcohol and the whole fining/prosecution situation that we have in the UK around under 18 year olds purchasing alcohol. The burden of responsibility should always fall to the parents to ensure that their child doesn't buy alcohol or attempt to, not the poor shopkeeper. It should be the parents who are fined if their child attempts to buy alcohol, not the sales agent. As it stands, we have a situation where grown adults can't legitimately buy alcohol without carrying a passport or driving licence on them, even if they are considerably above the age of legal drinking. I was talking to someone the other day who said that they were asked to prove that they aren't a child to buy a bottle of wine at 30 years old. It's a ludicrous situation. On a similar note, I was behind a 40+ woman in the queue at a toiletries store and she was asked to prove that she wasn't a child in order to buy a pair of tweezers.

I don't know what jurisdiction other Mumsnetters are in, but in the UK we have a problem with children behaving wholly unacceptably and the parents not bothering to do anything about it because of lack of accountability. In my city, there are areas where the bus services have had to be curtailed of an evening because someone's little "darlings" (I could use other words but they might not be in-keeping with forum rules) are throwing bricks, eggs and goodness knows what at the windows. Social services should investigate as soon as the police raise concerns about illegal behaviour. The parents should take the blame for this behaviour.

A couple of months ago, there was a girl in a city centre that I was in who was threatening grown ups with a knife, whilst riding a bicycle on a pedestrianised street. The "mother" later emerged from a bookmakers, seemingly off of her face on some kind of substance. I told the mother she should teach her child how to behave and what's not acceptable and the mother didn't seem to care less. If it was down to me, the "mother" would be charged with causing an affray by neglecting to control her child, who threatened people with a knife.

Being a parent is not an easy job, and it's not a part time job either. When my children are older, they will not be loitering outside shops and trying to buy alcohol or to encourage adults to buy for them. They shall certainly be treating others with due respect. They will not be on the streets, bored and vandalising property. My husband and I will encourage them to develop hobbies and interests, such as football, music, art, even cinema. We have planned to reduce our hours at work and budgeted for it, so that when the children become too old for our au-pair, that we can ensure that they aren't on the streets, getting up to mischief. We are going to educate our children on the law and the consequences of breaking the law. Of course, we allow them to play and let off steam. They do push boundaries occasionally but we always let them know that certain kinds of behaviour is unacceptable and will result in sanctions such as no internet access for a week, or even longer depending on the severity of the misbehaviour. We allow our children to play and they do occasionally act up or be a little 'cheeky' but they are well aware that there is a line that they do not cross.

What do you think about the matter of unacceptable behaviour of other people's children? Does it anger you that the parents aren't held accountable as much as they should? Are your own children ever guilty of behaving in an un-savoury manner? Vote in the poll and share your thoughts.

I have read all your replies hoping to find out how old your perfect children are .

i was born in the 70’s bought alcohol at 14 regularly. I was damaged , left home at 17 - my parents were not responsible for me then .

My Ds was far less trouble than me even though 18 has never drunk as much as me . We did have Ss involved for a short while - they literally were fucking useles.. They created a whole new set of problems that weren’t there and solved nothing. Ss aren’t the solution to every problem . He did nothing illegal - but putting someone in from Ss isn’t some magic key .

Teenagers lie - it’s part of them growing apart . Teenagers are impulsive , highly influenced by peers .

There are many parents out there who are desperate for help and it just isn’t available . Telling a toddler not to go near a fire and picking them up when they don’t listen is not comparable to a 6 ft teenager who towers above you .

You have to let them make mistakes , I look forward to hearing about the impeccable teenagers you raise.

@BigFatBully yes there are parents who don’t care but punishing them isn’t going to be a help or deterrent all it would do is further punish the parents who do care and who find themselves in tricky situation with their teen son

When are you writing a parenting book

Children don't get sent to school with money for lunch. They have an account at school that you add money to.

Are you never going to let your teenagers have money? Never let them go out with friends? How will they learn how to manage money? Or are you just assuming your kids won't do that because of your superior parenting?

This post shows how clueless you are about teenagers. Are you really going to have your children accompanied when they are 15/16/17? When are they going to learn independence and have a chance to make their own decisions? With all those clubs, when are your children going to have time to do their homework or even just have down time? When your children get to the real world after the constant sheltering, they won't know how to cope with situations the real world will present them with.

I have seen very sheltered teens go crazy when suddenly the reins were off, with trying everything banned to them before. I have known of teens who got drunk at school for goodness sake.

My teens were pretty sensible. I equipped them by talking to them and preparing them for situations. I built their values and gently let them take more and more responsibility for their lives. When they proved responsible and capable, they got more freedom.

If you raise your kids the way you are outlined here and you are in the UK or most other countries, their upbringing won't be able to be described as normal. An Au Pair for mid-teenagers. Really?

My parents let my sibling stay at friends, checked all was okay, checked with their parents they would be present all night. Who provided the alcohol? Those same parents. My parents had no idea.

You are very amusing, I’ll give you that. Big on responsibility but happy to leave your children with an unqualified person on minimum wage, who likely cares little for upholding your ‘values’ and is here as a way to travel.

Op is clearly the mother of very little children. It’s very different parenting teens to younger children. Physically easier but psychologically far far more difficult. A different set of skills is needed. You will hopefully develop those skills in time op as as you are frankly embarrassing yourself on this thread pontificating on matters you know absolutely fuck all about. Cringe.

Completely agree with this.

She refers to Brownies as something her kids will do when they’re older, so they’re not even 7 yet! It’s not surprising the only scenario shes given of her implementing discipline is one where she would have carried them out the room if they didn’t listen and she apparently hasn’t realised that has a limited shelf life as a strategy.

My “baby” is 5 foot 9 aged 16 (but going on 24) gorgeous and a party girl - I have had to update my parenting style from the Brownie years that’s for sure!

If anyone is carrying anyone anywhere she would be carrying me!

You have absolutely no idea what some children’s lives are like. Have you heard of Adverse Childhood Experiences? There are families trying their best but there are also children that are groomed into criminality. There are families who are generational criminals whose children don’t stand a chance. Instruction, Explanation, Consequence may be simple and effective in the majority of cases but when you are dealing with a parent who wasn’t parented themselves not so much and children, due to their immaturity don’t necessarily think of consequences.

Didn’t most of us drink cider in a field or park at 16 🤣 it wasn’t my parents fault I’m not sure what they were supposed to do.

IME this isn’t actually very popular with teens my son’s age. You only have to look at comments on social media from young people that ‘millennials are drunk and gross’ It’s all about the image and the photos.

Why Are You Using All Caps Like This? We Are Not In The US!

Things would be a lot better if parents allowed other adults to discipline their badly behaved children - eg teachers, shop staff, hospitality staff. If your child is being objectionable, you tell them off. Or you don't get the hump when someone else does it.

Example - the other day I was in a supermarket and someone let their child take their bike in. Of course nobody said anything because they were scared of a torrent of abuse. But those same parents would probably be moaning on Facebook about older kids riding e-scooters round the town centre.

I think your 'baby' is probably an ideal example of why the retailer should not always be held accountable. Ours were similar at that age and depending on what they wore could present as if they were in their twenties or still at school. I think in the case of selling alcohol the shopkeeper should have a reasonable defence of thinking they were over 18. In these situations then it should be the purchaser who commits the offence.

Generally though I think the parents should be held to account for the behaviour of their children. If little Jimmy gets out a pen knife and starts slashing seats on the bus because nobodies going to stop him the little Jimmy's parents should be financially liable for the damage. To many children are aware of little can be done to stop them.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/sentencing-and-the-council/types-of-sentence/types-of-sentences-for-young-people/

Just FYI parents and guardians are currently liable for fines incurred as a result of their charges criminal activity.

Thing is, you could take things to a whole new level if you want to start making people who could be seen as responsible in some way for another person's crime. Just think it through.

Dementia suffering Dad, for whom you have POA steals or damages something, or becomes violent. He's not yet deemed as lacking capacity and he's therefore free to "make unwise decisions". But you have POA or are his official carer, or his child. Should you not be pulled up for safeguarding and neglect issues?

Your husband is a raging alcoholic. You haven't left him because long list of complicated reasons. He smashes up a bar and steals a car. Should you, as his wife, be held in any way responsible, although you can't force people into treatment for their own good, and except in extreme circumstances neither can the authorities? What if his actions are because you DID leave him?

Also, your child is always "your child" - should you be punished for their actions in adulthood on the assumption their behaviour reflects your poor parenting?

You could analyse this for hours.

I agree, very well said. It's always the parents' responsibility to ensure their child behaves in the way that the law expects them to.

Little Jimmy's parents should be charged for replacing the seating and also cautioned for having a child under their care on possession of a knife.

And yes, children these days can get hold of some rather sophisticated fake identification. Computer programmes such as Adobe Photo Shop allow them to replicate a genuine identification undoubtedly. Some retail staff are under the impression that it's the law to ask anyone who is under 25 years to show identification. This is simply not true. There is no legal requirement to check identification, however there is a legal requirement not to sell alcohol to persons under 18. Pressure groups such as Challenge 25 put great pressure and emphasis on retail staff around identification checking, as if that's a mighty shield that will protect them from prosecution. Some of young people even have their identification on their mobile phones these days, displayed on the screen instead of an actual physical document. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that a clued up 17 year old set to work on Microsoft Paint and made themselves a realistic piece of identification. Some retail staff just like seeing identification to be nosey. I've also noticed a leery, creepy type of man ask a young but clearly adult woman for identification and he spent ages studying her name, my suspicion was that it was so he could look her up on Facebook. 😡Remember, retail staff aren't vetted, we really don't know who we are handing our personal details over to.

We place far too much on height and I think that we forget that we are getting taller and how young girls in particular get to adult height.

my two have 3.5 years beteeen them and currently 6 inches (though it will get more as DS continues to grow) DD is 16 and 5ft 4 DS 12 and 5ft10 and since about 10 and 13 often DS is seen to be older simply because of his height if you look closer he looks younger

As with anything it’s difficult. There are negligent don’t give a damn parents whose feral offspring are out committing quite serious crimes which I think is what op is getting at. That they should be liable.

But draconian laws would also catch the “at my wits end” devoted parents who have literally done all they can but their autonomous teen is still out partying. Can’t see how punishing them helps they are devastated enough as it is.

I’ve sat with 3 separate friends sobbing and terrified at their teens behaviour. Punishing them would be frankly cruel. The police in each case were gentle and sympathetic so even they get it.

It makes me laugh when parents to tiny kids say they won't this this, this and this when older. The fact is you don't know at this age how they will be as teenagers.you can put what you are doing in place but it still won't stop a rebellious teen. I've known perfect kids who go on to shop lift, buy alcohol etc.

My friends Dd was literally the perfect child. Kind responsible thoughtful the girl always chosen by the teachers as the reliable one. The teen years hit very hard. She’s a lovely young woman at 20 albeit extremely independent. Her sibling been easy throughout. Honestly until you’ve seen it / experienced it you can’t understand.

We’ve also been hit with an awful teen issue out of the blue. It’s been horrific. But you know the upside has made me more empathic and understanding of other parents not that I wasn’t before but I really get it now. Op is far far behind on this journey.

You're judging others for their parenting skills whilst leaving your own DC to be parented by some young kid to save yourself some money. People in glass houses OP..

I don’t believe a fucking word, you went up to a woman high on drugs and asked why she didn’t take responsibility for her children? You think that someone on drugs that isn’t responsible for themselves is capable of being responsible for their children 🤦‍♀️