Is it normal school asking us to pay for additional support?

[OnlyOneBike]

Son is nearly 5 years old and in reception of an independent school. We've been told he has behaviour issues in school such as making silly noises in classes or pushing down other children's lego etc. He is probably sat out two / three times per week. We've observed him playing in groups (birthday parties, clubs, etc). He's definitely the less destructive type but can become overexcited quite easily and do silly things especially among children. He's behaving much better with grown ups. Teachers and we all agree his main problem is impulse control.

We regularly talk to his teachers to make sure we can reflect with him any incidents in school. Now is the confusing bit. One of his form teachers (they have two because of job sharing) who is also school SENCO thinks he needs additional support and has asked us many times to consider additional support from a named therapist at an additional cost. The other form teacher seems to be ok with the current situation and is always quiet when we talked about additional support.

We are not against having more support if that's needed but we feel very unsure. For one, the cost really puts us off. For two, we don't know anything about this named therapist and don't feel very comfortable for our son to have to meet them regularly without us.

We asked the school SENCO if our son needs a diagnosis or can we go through the standard council process and request someone whose qualification is more visible like doctor from NHS to help us (EHC or something I think it's called?). But they said it was nothing like that and he didn't need a diagnosis.

Please can experienced parents share their thoughts on this? Does this sound the right approach? Should we accept what the SENCO proposed? Should we talk to the headmaster? We are definitely willing to work with the school and support our child as needed. But we have zero experience. Nor do our family or freinds. Desperately need some independent opinions. Thanks in advance!

It's normal to pay for sen support at private schools BUT I'd personally not be paying for something until I was sure what the issue was. It sounds like they're just not great at managing his behaviour, so paying for a specialist seems overkill. I'd probably get my own educational psychologist in to assess him privately, and if they say there's no diagnosable issues and its just behaviour, then I'd be asking the class teacher to support with a behaviour plan or seeing if they can do 121 with someone who just helps keep him on track, rather than relying on an expensive therapist.
If he has a specific diagnosed issue, it makes sense to have some 121 support from an expert in that area. If he isn't, they should be managing his behaviour through normal methods. I don't think I'd be very impressed with them getting him to sit out the classroom so regularly either- theyre clearly not engaging him or working with him in a way that suits his brain, regardless of an issue, and therefore he is missing out on learning. Is there a chance that this school isn't a great fit for your son, even if it looked great originally? Sometimes, schools look glossy and are great for a certain type of child, but maybe he's not that type of child. My son is mild sen, and thrives in a relaxed environment - a lot of independents don't suit this, some are perfect for him, but a glossy, immaculate, everyone is perfect school absolutely would break him. Does your son like his school?

My sister’s DD was at a small village state primary. To an onlooker it might look idyllic - however, they overlooked the horrendous bullying she was receiving from the other girls and no clue that she might be autistic.
My DS went to a 3-form entry state primary which probably looked less idyllic to an onlooker, but they were fantastic with him. His year 3 teacher wrote the letter to the GP that led to his autism diagnosis, his year 5 teacher persuaded us to get an ADHD assessment, they made lots of reasonable adjustments for his SATS taking him from a boy who would rip his paper in rage at getting one question wrong to sitting all SATs papers and getting greater depth in all.

So I completely agree that bigger schools may actually be better for SEN children than smaller ones. My DS’ primary now has a small class for SEN children so that they can be away from the large classes at times, so there is somewhere they can go if overwhelmed. They can only over this due to their size and economies of scale.

i am sorry but which five year old has impulse control?!!! teachers need to fix their approach instead of punishing him or reinforcing through labels they should demonstrate acceptable behaviour, and divert his attention when needed.

IME with a DC with SEN, his school and outside agencies have provided support. We both work, no benefits, but have never had to pay. Maybe because he has an EHCP, I don't know.

You will have to play ball with the school or otherwise you might be labelled difficult and eventually managed out.

In independent school parents would pay for additional support if needed and if no EHCP in place. Often even with EHCP you may need to top-up.

IME private school SENCO characters are not keen on helping with EHCP applications or doing their job properly.

They want him to have speech therapy and occupational therapy, even though he has no diagnosis, because he makes silly noises and pushes down kids’ Lego? That sounds like typical 5 year old behaviour to me?
Is it the kind of school where they expect kids to be mini adults?
I know someone whose child is at a very “traditional” private school, at the pre-school they expected children to be fully toilet trained by 3. Is it that kind of environment?
If I were you I’d send him somewhere he’s allowed to actually be a child 🤷‍♀️

In the independent sector, it is very, very normal to be asked to pay additional fees for additional services and provision. In relation to behaviour support, this is likely to be a therapist / counsellor type person and is probably very well known to the SENCo, and engaged by the school on a 1 to 1 basis for other students. He/she will have professional qualifications which should be easy to check yourself. You should also be able to request a meeting with the person and to have regular feedback, even a plan of action and a review at intervals. The Headteacher, if approached, will bat this back to the SENCo because that's what the SENCo is paid by him/her to do. For behaviour, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY you'd qualify for an EHCP unless the behaviour was extremely dangerous to fellow pupils and adults. In the state sector, you'd wait years for an EHCP. Even in the independent sector, an EHCP could take many months to be granted, and involves all sorts of assessments by a range of specialists.
If, however, your son has a suggestion of Dyslexia, then a specialist Dyslexia assessment can be carried out ( again, in the independent sector, you'd be expected to pay the assessor). However, any Dyslexia assessor worth their salt would insist on evidence of need over many months before a proper assessment prior to diagnosis.

Your quote.

Are you seriously suggesting that It is easier to get an Ehc in the private sector? That is utterly not true.

No, I am not. If YOU have construed this from my post, then you have not understood what I've written. Back off.

Was about to say...you'd just would NOT get the support in a state school. It's about what can be afforded by different services, not what your child needs. So conveniently children often don't 'need' said support....It's such a long ridiculous journey to getting support and it's a postcode lottery depending on how much each funding the council has to pay for it.

Actually, I read it similar to that poster I think. At least, I read it as though you were saying it's quicker in the independent sector. It was the bit that says:

In the state sector, you'd wait years for an EHCP. Even in the independent sector, an EHCP could take many months to be granted...

that seems to imply this.

You said "in the state sector you would wait years for an EHCP. Even in the independent sector an EHCP could take many months" so never mind me backing off, this comment outright compares getting an ehc in the state and private sectors.

I used to work in ehc parental support and it was generally MUCH harder for parents in the independent sector to get one.

You are wrong. I don't care how you read my post. You are just plain wrong in your assumptions, about which, I care zilch.

I agree (with your quoting and interpretation).

I can't connect on which sector it's actually more difficult to get an EHCP in, but I fully agree with you that the poster has stated that it is quicker to get an EHCP in the independent sector than in the state sector.

Wrong about the fact that you said "in the state sector you would wait years for an EHCP. Even in the independent sector an EHCP could take many months"? 😒

I don't care how you've construed what I've written. As a SENCo in the independent sector I know what I'm talking about. The post isn't about me. Spend your energies helping the original poster instead of attempting to discredit me.

@Pawparazzi if you didn’t mean it is quicker to get an EHCP for a child in the independent sector than it is to get an EHCP for a child in the state sector, what did you mean?

I second that question - @Pawparazzi , as requested by another poster above, can you please explain what you mean when you said:

"in the state sector you would wait years for an EHCP. Even in the independent sector an EHCP could take many months"

(And explain why that quote doesn't say that it is quicker to get an EHCP in the independent sector than state)? Thanks! 👌

I stand by everything I have said.

@Pawparazzi but can you clarify what you meant? If you didn’t mean it is quicker to get an EHCP for a child in the independent sector than it is to get an EHCP for a child in the state sector, what did you mean?

Yes, I second this question (again).

I’d like to know the answer to this too.

My son has been educated in state and private. I am certainly not aware that it’s quicker or easier to get an EHCP in the private sector.

It really isn't and the person who suggested this hasn't explained what she meant, while continuing to insist she is right.

All LAs have a process for all ehc plans, which is derived from the gov SEN Code of Practice. It's 20 weeks min from start to finish.

The LA will set out the evidence it expects the school to provide. This is pretty onerous on the school and many independent schools don't have the expertise in applying for an ehc that a state school does - they often don't have the necessary evidence because they haven't been collecting it.

And there is no fast track an independent school can use.

LAs are often suspicious of applications from private schools. They tend to suspect that the school hasn't tried everything and has unrealistic expectations - not being able to cope with low ability children or any degree of challenging behaviour for example, which would be unremarkable and easily managed in a state school where the staff are more used to children like this.

State schools have a sen budget for support for sen outside of an ehc plan. Private schools have to fund everything themselves and will often be horrified to find themselves having to pay for anything significant - hence asking parents to fund it and hoping for an ehc even for children with needs that arent that severe. .

@Worriedmotheroftwo and @CatkinToadflax, I don’t think we are going to get an answer.

Well, personally I have found it much faster to get all of the assessments and inputs that might be used to support an EHCP.

if we were in state we would still be waiting for an autism assessment that occurred 18 months ago. And no, you don’t need a diagnosis for an EHCP, but you do need professional assessment of needs. So yes, if we had decided to seek an EHCP it would have been years faster in private.