..to think that having a child who is average is fine. And that having a child who is advanced does not actually reflect upon anyone

[pagwatch]

...I have a staggeringly bright boy. i have another boy who has severe SN. I have a DD who is so far so average.
trhey are nice people. they are well mannered and very kind to each other. Loving, polite and affectionate.
I am not responsible for their IQ's - that is down to god the universe and genes .
The bright boy is not nicer than the boy with SN. My gorgeous average little DD is not of less worth than her more able brother.

Why are we all so obsessed with our kids 'smarts as if that is some holy grail bestowing health wealth and happiness.
And why do some of us seem to want to derive some vicarious kudos from the talents that their kids got from god knows where?

When did that start ?
AIBU that a whole generation of parents are going to be looking at their offspring in 20 years time wondering why they are just as averagly happy as everyone else ?

I think you've made that point KM.

I'm going to declare my interest once and once only because I really do not believe in the value of them: all three of my children come out in the upper centile of any IQ/ standardised they have ever chanced to take.

However, I emphatically do not feel that this is as important to me as whether they are pleasant, balanced human beings, and adequately looked after. That is the only bit I am in charge of. I am not going to micro-manage their intellectual development, unless they need help finding something out of their own accord (very rare now that they 10, 13 and 14).

Repeatedly KM

ps: they are by design in schools where they are not out of the ordinary or labelled in any way.

As mum of a not so well-behaved DS I think all you lot priding yourself on your well-behaved polite children come across as a bit, well, smug. My DS is not well-behaved, he is impulsive, silly, acts up, shows inappropriate social behaviour, etc etc. But DD on the other had is (although still somewhat inclined to an "independent" frame of mind) is much much better behaved. On the face of it, my parenting has had very little to do with their behaviour (I blame DH's delinquent genes). So little of what we as parents do actually makes a difference - if you are a nice two parent middle class family, chances are your child will do "all right" regardless.

the inference being we not-nice, one parent uncertain class families are going to hell in a hand cart!

That's a good point, Florenceuk. My children are so different from each other (in academic and other abilities, and in behaviour and temperament). Parenting is just a small part of how they are.

Can't speak for anybody else but my children aren't ever always polite and well-behaved. And you should see their table manners Furthermore, two of them are displaying distinctly teenagerish traits. That's why I have to work on them.

no, just that the way it works in Britain today is that class mobility is pretty limited. And very strong evidence is that what determines your income later in life (not talking about happiness) is what your parents (and perhaps even more specifically, your dad) earnt.

I wish my parenting skills were a bit more up to scratch but I reckon DS wouldn't behave any different.

lovely post back there, expat.

Florence, I think that it a bit simplistic. My parents are both working class by occupation (my dad works in a factory), whereas I went to uni and did postgrad qualifications as well. I don't earn that much, but that's because I have a job I enjoy rather than one that pays . I would def fit in with the middle class bracket, as would DH ( who was brought up by a carer mum in a council house)

you might be right that social mobility is getting harder - I benefited from excellent comprehensive education and a good grammar school. Likewise DH (county scholarship to public school)

Effie, I think it is getting harder, I'm sure I saw something on this recently. BTW, my parents were peasants, but they went to NZ, so they vaulted into shopkeeper class.

I didn't mean to say people can't do it, just for the majority of people it doesn't happen at least here in the UK (which is a bit of digression from the thread).

here's the research on social mobility - a bit depressing: www.lse.ac.uk/collections/pressAndInformationOffice/newsAndEvents/archives/2005/LSE_SuttonTrust_repo rt.htm

Issy, I love the sound of your DD's Penguin's weekly birthdays! Is it an elaborate way of getting weekly cake, or do Penguins only eat pretend cake?

< wonders how many Penguin years there are per human year >

Emotional intelligence is critical to a successful career. You can have an extremely intelligent child but if their emotional intelligence is poor the child is unlikely to have a successful career. Equally a child with an average IQ but high EI has the potential to do extremely well.

Genes wise by children should be very bright. However, this alone won't stand them in good stead. Confidence, empathy, social interation, self-awareness are so very important.

A parent who is smug (I'm not saying any of you are!)that their child has a high IQ needs to wake up and see the bigger picture.

So what if a child passes an exam at early age etc. What does that really mean in their adult life when they get older? Nothing!

Pinata - I like your comments.

gosh, I've just got in and I'm going to try and readthe whole thread before I need to nip out again but, on a quick skim 'tis really interesting stuff.

It was prompted by the fact that i have had some very fraught conversations with freinds who are worried about their childs ability at school. And given that they are mostly 5 or 6 it bothered me a bit. Plus I realised that the very happiest people of my aquaintence are an SN teacher, the lady who runs the local coffee shop, a painter and decorator and me . Given that many of my friends work in the city that shouldn't be right really, not if we are supposed to equate happy with successful and rich?

I also had a new mum unwisely ask me what reading age DD was . I told her she was already reading better than her 11 year old brother and didn't mention his SN until she had freaked out a little bit. It really bothered her and she was visibly anxious that her DD may not be the best. Why? Her DD seems perfectly fine and happy and is soo young. I never hired anyone based upon their reading age at 5.

I agree with all the points about our pride in our kids. Totally agree. I just would love some threads saying " my DS is three and exceptionaly brilliant at sharing his toys and being kind to his friends. Is this unusual? Should I be asking the teacher to mix him with more arsey children so he is a little more challenged"

Kerry -I think you are missing the point a bit sweetie. It never was anything to do with giftedness. It was about academic success being persued as the only measure of a childs worth. As I said in my op my DS is exceptionally bright but if you ask me the things about him I love and admire 'bright' would not be in the top three. Its great but it does not define him and it certainly does not define me. Your childs extreme giftedness has brought you additional challenges and of course you discuss that. that really wasn't what I was trying to discuss here.

Anyway I'll read the rest butthatnks for all your thought. Really interesting.
( but mostly I just love Guitar

re the pride in success thing with our kids.

I once went to the kids sports day. All the usual players were there, the over competative,the insecure and worried, and that was only the parents!

In the nursery race one little girl fell over, and the boy running next to her stopped, picked her up, and they ran across the line, holding hands in last place. They were cheared to the tree tops! and to my mind were the greatest winners of the day.

I stand by what I said in my first post 'Nice kids do fine'

'nice kids do fine'
someone should put that on a t-shirt .

MB my DS2 is a fantastic runner. when he was little the teachers at his school kept saying you should get some support to help him, he could go to special olympics etc. But whenever he would race he would whizz far ahead of the other kids, step off the track, wave at them all as they ran past then step back on and race to catch up. then he would do the same thing all over again.

Never got a coach fro him as sports were always tears of laughter days . Could not find the heart to teach that out of him

Pagwatch - thats a fantastic story, the image of it make me laugh and laugh - I hope you have an example preserved on video!

six months into teaching I realised the 'Nice kids' thing.

Yes I love to teach the bright, its fab when you pack them off to become medics and vets.

The most rewarding is teaching the kids who struggle, and it is fantastic to see them 'get it'.

But wherever the kids are in the academic scheme of things, you know that the nice kids will be just fine. Whatever they end up doing they will have a nice life, make relationships, screw it up on times, and get over it. Nice kids do fine. If I had to chose for mine I'd pick nice every day and twice on Sunday