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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that its unfair to exclude husbands/partners from local mother & baby play groups?

98 replies

Mine · 21/05/2008 21:08

I understand some of the reasons why they would not be welcome ie some women feel uncomfortable to bf in front of men in these groups, but then they bf in other public places (i've seen women bf'ing in starbucks on many occasions).

The idea is to get mum's and babies to socialise more, but isn;t is unfair to exclude partners from this too.....????

What if the main carer of a baby is male.....?
They would not be encouraged to attend.

The reason i ask is that my dh works shifts and will be taking care of ds on some days when i go back to work 9-5. I'd like ds to carry on playing with is baby friends so thought dh could carry on taking him to the baby group instead of me, but he was turned away when we went to a local baby group today.

He was really ticked off about it. Although he doesn;t want to make mums uncomfortable, he feels that dads are not really taken into account once baby is born ie no support groups, dad and baby groups etc.

Maybe in time this will change.....

OP posts:
MARGOsBeenPlayingWithMyNooNoo · 21/05/2008 21:19

We have a dad group on a saturday morning in our area.

S1ur · 21/05/2008 21:19

P&T groups of course should be inclusive places for all PARENTS including dads. Is there any chance this is a breastfeeding support group?

I think, I think it is worthwhile and right to have some spaces that are exclusive to women. Even though when I first came across this in a parenting way it pissed me off enormously and I wanted to complain.

One time was in a post-natal surestart new mums thing.
To be fair, it was often women's firs trip out and bf was tricky and people were offloading about birth etc. I get that now.

The other time was a bf cafe. A dad was turned away. I thought shame because it could've/should've normalised bf. But again, women there were needed help, possibly feeling exposed, first time feeding in public yadda yah. So again I get it.

So any chance this place your talking about could have been fulfilling any of those roles?

ThingOne · 21/05/2008 21:21

I've never heard of men being excluded from a toddler group. There have been dads at virtually everything I've been to, including the post natal group when people were first getting to grips with breastfeeding.

The only thing I've never seen men at are La Leche League meetings and they're hardly excluded just unlikely to want to talk about the details of latch, positioning and whether carrots should be steamed or boiled.

MsHighwater · 21/05/2008 21:27

Assuming it's just a toddler group and not, as Slur suggests, something else where making it women only would be understandable, I'm appalled.

Could you find an alternative group to go to? If you do, make sure to let the first one know why you are leaving.

mum2oneloudbaby · 21/05/2008 21:37

YANBU and

for your DH

they are living in the dark ages.

we had a dad at our post natal group he was more than welcome is nice to get a different perspective on things.

he should complain.

AbbeyA · 21/05/2008 21:45

I went to mother and baby groups years ago and they were always open to men.I can't imagine why they would be excluded-it is very unfair on the DC if Dad is the one at home with them.

LynetteScavo · 21/05/2008 21:52

Wow... I'm realy by this. There are loads of families in the same position as you, with parents working shifts, so men really do need to be welcomed to groups.

Well done for your DH for going at all. Many men I know wouldn't have bothered/had the guts.

At a toddler group I used to go to, a single dad who attended with his DC ended up marrying a single mum.

(But maybe that's what they're afraid of!

usernamechanged345 · 21/05/2008 21:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PandaG · 21/05/2008 21:55

our church runs 3 toddler groups each week, as well as one specifically for teenage parents. One of the toddler groups in the week is specifically women only, in order to accommodate the many local women who can only attend single sex events due to cultural reasons. THis is made very clear on the advertising, and dads and grandads are very welcome to the other groups. I think this is reasonable. Would be furious if men were turned away from general groups though.

crimplene · 21/05/2008 21:57

They do it here too. Most of the mothers at one group I go to are from a background where their husbands simply wouldn't let them attend the group if there were men allowed. They come into the room and ask first if there's a man who wants to come an look around (usually as husband checking if it's a suitable place for his wife to go) and there's a flurry of putting on headscarves and veils and detaching babies and toddlers from breasts when it happens.

I can see that excluding men has allowed them to reach the majority who are SAHMs who have very limited access to any services, and that's a good thing - but at quite a high cost for the poor dads who've been turned away. I don't quite know how I feel about it tbh, no YANBU though.

jasper · 21/05/2008 22:32

that is bizarre

CaptainUnderpants · 21/05/2008 22:39

Name & shame - go to the local paper about it !

PussinJimmyChoos · 21/05/2008 22:46

We have men attending our music group and I don't have a problem with it at all - its so lovely to see the men taking an active part in the child's hobbies! If I were to be breastfeeding, I would just make sure I had modesty bib or something - no different to being out in a cafe!

PussinJimmyChoos · 21/05/2008 22:48

PS

Crimplene - I'm Muslim and I just make sure I'm covered in case any men are there and although mixing between the sexes in Islam is generally not allowed, in a very public gathering that focuses on the children and not much chit chatting with the adults, I really can't see any problem with it!

Original poster
Mine · 21/05/2008 22:48

the be fair the organiser didn't have a problem with dh being there but the other mums in the group were not very forthcoming at all.

We were told that had we let them know in advance we would be informed whether or not it would be ok for him come along. (not sure how they would diplomatically say he was not welcome!)
The organiser was absolutely lovely and very supportive, saying she was trying to make it a more partner friendly group, but it seems that maybe other mums were not so keen to share their group with men....
I felt really bad for staying to attend the group as dh said it was fine, that he would go home.. i should have gone with him, but also wanted to stay and make some new friends for ds.....

I feel as though that we missed out on 'family' play groups by not signing up to NCT classes as they seem to be far more accepting of dads.
I also think there is a bigger issue here on how we want dads to be more involved with parenting right from the very beginning, but it all seems to stop after the delivery room!
DH just kind of feels left out of being part of ds's social circle to some extent as we tend to have him play with other babies in baby groups which he now feels he can;t be a part of.
He is now too self conscious to go back to the group next week, or any group for that matter.

OP posts:
MadBadandDangeroustoKnow · 21/05/2008 22:51

I used to go to lots of parent and baby groups and they were just that - dads in the minority but certainly welcome.

Capn Underpants is right - go to the local paper!

wotulookinat · 21/05/2008 22:56

My DH used to take DS to a couple but stopped after a while because he felt so unwelcome.

madamez · 21/05/2008 23:01

I'd actually advise against going to the local paper without being very sure of the facts. Because, as some posters have pointed out, it's quite important for some mothers, who are not allowed for abusive bullshit cultural reasons to be anywhere they might meet men who are not family members, to be able to get out of the house and socialise (and hopefully get the strength to fight against these gruesome primitive restrictions but that's another matter). But it is also important for men to be able to be involved in day-to-day childcare, so hopefully you will be able to find another group that is open to all.
Every toddler group we attend/have attended has had at least one dad or grandad bringing DC along on a fairly regular basis, and our favourite one is actually run by a man.

MadBadandDangeroustoKnow · 21/05/2008 23:06

Madamez - I agree. I should have said something like 'go to the local paper as long as you are sure that there aren't bona fide cultural or other reasons for excluding men (in other words, that this is just some sort of 1950s throwback).' Apologies for the omission.

MadBadandDangeroustoKnow · 21/05/2008 23:07

Ooops. Thought I'd sussed italics. Clearly not.

wotulookinat · 21/05/2008 23:07

sod the cultural reasons. Parents are parents in this day and age.

jasper · 21/05/2008 23:11

the restraining catch on my brain has come loose tonight.

i agree with wotyoulookinat.

There is no reason apart from a bullshit one why a man should be barred from a group like this.

Break down those pathetic cultural barriers I say

MadBadandDangeroustoKnow · 21/05/2008 23:12

I think so too, but there are some women whose families will only allow them out of the house to go to a women-only event. I find that shocking and it's not the culture in which I grew up, but that is how life is for some women. I wouldn't want to do something that limited their opportunities even further.

jasper · 21/05/2008 23:13

but to exclude men colludes with all that bullshit.

Original poster
Mine · 21/05/2008 23:13

Going to the local paper might be a bit extreme!

The whole thing just underlined a point dh and i have been talking about since we had ds (our first so far).. that dads are not really well catered for at all (sounds like this may be confined to our area though).

Even at the very beginning when we weren't coping so well with a new baby, the hv/midwives never once asked dh how he was coping with a new baby and a wife with PND!

He felf side-lined then and again today.

We'll just have to find a different group i guess.

OP posts: