to accept a job thats morally questionable?

[jobdrama101]

A brief bit of background. Im a qualified nurse, i work in a very high pressure physical role, for 12 hours shifts. I LOVE my job, i love the pressure and the pace. However, i have some health issues, im off sick at the minute. Im awaiting some result and some further referrals. The health issue mainly affects mobility, otherwise physically i am fine, but the most likely result is going to be a condition that will affect my ability to do the job i love. Having discussed it with my manager, they have heavily implied returning if i get the diagnosis is going to be difficult, and i am in full agreement, as upsetting as this is. This job was my goal from childhood, im now mid 40's but only qualified 4 years ago, it took me a long time to achieve my dream.

Less physical nursing jobs do exist, however, the job market for nursing is, well, basically none existent. The best, most suitable for my health needs, earning enough money to support myself and my children, is a pip assessor role. But, everyone has read the negatives attached to this position.

I need a job though, not working is not an option. This is a hybrid role, that involves mostly work from home, around 5 days per month in a centre doing face to face assessments, which is more than manageable as even in person, there isnt a lot of walking around.

My thinking at the moment is its temporary, or could be, there are clinic based jobs, practice nursing, maybe even research, there are other positions, but there are none available for me to even apply for. I feel it is most sensible to just accept i cannot go back to the job i love, and rather than remain off sick indefinitely, do this job whilst looking for a suitable role.

Ive asked friends and family, and im getting mixed views. Some saying its a solid plan, others saying morally, they would never ever do this job.

I understand I really do and I understand the 'bird in the hand' PIP role has appeal over a potential no/unsuitable redeployment. but but but...NHS terms and conditions are not to be given up lightly the sick pay cover is very generous and the pension contributions are very hard to find elsewhere.Op is on her mind 40's with potentially a long term condition. These things matter......She has rights and protections under in her current contract which her manager might not be fully supporting her to understand/make use of..Hence the union/mmc ... You should check whether (for example) you have the right to work in a different role with reasonable adjustments... I'm not sure they can just sign you off from your role if there are tasks somewhere in the trust you can complete....

Appreciate you’ve not that long been in this role, but you could also consider looking for roles with somewhere like AXA or Aviva as part of their Occupational Health team? Most of the OH Assessors I’ve worked with over then last 5-10 years have been predominantly based from home and had a reasonable amount of flexibility in organising their day.

Feeding your kids comes first

Why is it morally wrong? The alternative to having PIP risk assessors would be not having them at all, and obviously that would be wrong, as it would then be open day for each and every claim if there was no-one to actually assess the claims. There has to be some regulation.

@jobdrama101 Personally I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Think about the positives you can bring to the role - compassion, understanding and doing what’s right. PIP assessment is a necessary role in the society we live in but it can be done in a compassionate manner.

I am sorry you have to maybe leave the dream job you worked hard for and only been there 4 years. If you are hesitating doing the assesor job then it may not be for you and could leave you with regret. I knew a nurse who left the nursing home my mum was at for the same assessor role. She quit after less than 6 months and said it was soul destroying and left her crying at how harsh it was even on people clearly who should get PIP. She returned to the nursing home. Could you not maybe find a nursing job like assessing people who call 111 or work at a GP surgery?

It is terrible that you say the job market for nurses is so bad (I'm sure you know your field, not disputing the word of someone who works in it) when we all know people who would benefit from more nurses-either for online support about health issues/trainer of other nurses/someone who can do basic tests for people who would struggle to get to a hospital etc-and that people who have trained to help others feel forced to do this.
I suppose you just have to decide for yourself if you would actually be happy, o at least able to tolerate it-I'd heard the role is very scripted and not really using nursing skills (this is second/third hand in some cases, so maybe the best thing is to ask people who have done the job directly, so they can tell you?)

Go for it! I thought it was going to be something really bad, like working for the Guardian!

I thought the job would be something like working for a defence company making weapons! Or for an oil company or similar.

We need PIP assessors

The system is flawed and imperfect but so are many systems … by that logic you could say some roles in teaching, legal, policing, borders, pensions, are morally dubious.

You not taking the job won’t change the system. But by doing it, you can do it well and compassionately and perhaps influence positive change from within. Plus you do need to earn a living.

I assume you are talking about a life changing diagnosis like MS or something to that level. So I'm answering on the assumption of big/ permanent.

You have some protections and rights as a NHS employee and I agree with other posters to ride that redeployment process through.

Given the turnover, there will always be jobs for PIP. Keep it in your back pocket and find other ways to cope with your boredom while off.

I am a civil servant so have a similar set up with generous sick policy and that's the advice I'd give a peer. You don't want to be in a new role and navigating a diagnosis and a probation period or even not clearing the 2 year mark. Ask a friend in HR (preferably not your own HR... I mean a friend in that discipline)

I'm also familiar with PIP from the digital service perspective through my role, and I wouldn't work for DWP (or HMRC or HO) myself. Someone has to but it's not for me. The stress, the politics, scrutiny from ministers and media, and the actual people whose lives you impact, no thanks. I love my corner of government but those ones- I don't even like peer assessing their services if I can avoid it.

This is also good advice- but after you ride out redeployment and what your trust can offer.

My husband’s aunt was a senior nurse and when she wanted to cut back as she got older she moved into occupational health. Would that be something you would be interested in?

They are always looking for PIP assessors because staff turnaround is so high. The job won't be gone.

OP I agree with those who say you should get Union advice.

Have you had an occupational health assessment? The reason I ask is that there may be nursing roles within your trust that are more suited to your health needs. Redeployment may be an option. For instance to a nurse based telephone / video clinics.

I had a phone PIP assessment recently. It didn't produce the outcome I'd have liked, but that wasn't the assessor's fault. She did a belt-and-braces job for me (and the DWP) and was pleasant and professional throughout. The decision isn't made by the assessor, it's made by the DWP and if the claimant isn't happy, there is a process they can use to challenge the decision. Again, its not perfect, but as a pp says, nor are many of the systems we rely on to keep society ticking over. You aren't manufacturing tobacco or tipping tons of waste into water courses, so don't worry, do what you need to do to look after yourself and your family.

This. I wouldn't rule out PIP assessing but do think about your other options as well....you might also want to consider it as a learning exoerience before looking for benefits advice work?

OP, I’m an NHS GP and firstly I’d say it’s worth thinking about what @hettie has said here, maybe ask to speak to occ health and management about what the likely process is if you do end up with a diagnosis making you unable to continue with clinical work. There is often a lot of admin with nursing jobs these days, especially if you’re fairly senior so certainly in the short to medium term they might be able to find you an alternative back office type role. However I guess in the long term if your not able to do the nursing job you trained for and were hired for, ultimately they would absolutely be within their rights to say that they can’t keep you on the books anymore, though there is usually a fairly long and convoluted process for this so it will take some time.

Depending on the exact situation people are occasionally able to take early medical retirement for such issues so it’s worth exploring though in practice as I’m sure you understand it’s often an uphill fight to get this.

It’s sad but I do totally understand what you are meaning here about your worries about this sort of job being morally/ethically dubious in that I think in a lot of these benefits assessor type jobs you often end up being expected to rubber stamp a decision to deny benefits to the majority of people no matter how potentially deserving and you won’t find yourself in a job for long if you resist it, unless you’re the sort of absolute bloody-minded person who is willing to go to bat for what they feel is right no matter the consequences and can handle serious amounts of work stress and toxic atmospheres/workplace bullying as a result etc, happy to go along to employment tribunals etc if needed to back up your position against your employer…. I think a lot of respondents here are a bit naive as to the realities of working in this sort of position. It is something I’ve considered myself as I also find myself dealing with multiple chronic health issues as life goes on and am finding it harder and harder to do my very stressful job. But for reasons like yourself I have so far avoided it. I’ve talked to lots of people who have tried this sort of job and burned out quickly from the stress and moral injury. Having said that I actually have heard that the PIP assessor job is less like this than the ESA type assessor jobs. I have spoken to a few people who I would rate as ethical moral people who have been really happy doing it and haven’t felt pressured to act unfairly against benefits claimants. So in the long term if it ends up becoming clear you can’t carry on long term at the current job I would definitely consider it in your shoes.

But at the minute I would just hold tight until you and your work know what’s what with your health issues and liase with occ health and management as required I think. If you are going to have very long waits it may be worth paying into something like Benenden who will start to fund you for appointments if waiting unreasonably long times on the NHS after 6 months of paying in even for pre-existing conditions.

It sounds like a good role for you. Just a heads up though, I have two friends, both nurses, who are PIP assessors and HATE it.

I've read your update re what your manager has said, and she might not be giving you the full picture.
Do you have a union rep?
If so, when you are next invited to a sickness review meeting, make sure to invite them.
If you haven't been seen by occupational health already, then you need to be referred.
Your employer/manager can ask for their opinion on your fitness to work and what reasonable adjustments could support your return to work.
This could be a temp adjustment to working hours/shifts, role and duties.
OH will formally recommend these after an assessment with you, then you should have another review meeting with your union rep present again, and your manager will have to look into how they can accommodate the short term temporary adjustments.
I'd there are not any adjustment that can support you in trialing being back at work in your current post, then they may look at redeployment on medical grounds.
But this likely comes with a fixed time frame in which a suitable post becomes available.
If one doesn't, they could look at ending the contract with you.
However, there is a huge amount of work your employer has to do to demonstrate they have done everything possible to support you in sustaining a return to work.
I dont know of anywhere in the NHS where these things happen quickly.

Best thing for you to do it book in some time with your union rep, and they can go through it all with you.

Equally, if at the end of this you feel that PIP is something you want to do then go for it, but dont be talked in to doing it hastily to make things easy for your manager.

There is nothing morally questionable about helping to root out those abusing the system. You should go for it! Are the police morally questionable for trying to stop theft from a shop?

Pip assessors aren't satan worshiping arms dealers! They just ask questions.
The actual decisions are made by someone else. As long as you're compassionate it isn't horribly morally bankrupt.
But the new changes might mean having to be involved in cutting loads of people off who still need it just because they changed the goal posts. Which could be pretty upsetting.

I know someone who does PIP assessments. They are kind and empathetic and really argue for the best outcomes. She thinks the role is tough but rewarding. We need kinder people in this position and you sound lovely - it might be great fit!

I read the original title and my first thought was, aww she must be a traffic warden 😆
Which is also a good job before anyone moans at me 🙄🙈🤪
My second thought was escort 🤪
which is also fine 😇

Have you considered being an CHC nurse assessor? Not sure on your mobility and whether this will make it difficult but quite a few assessments are remotely done and are home or office based with some travel to patients homes. They're more about gathering the narrative from the patient/family/care home staff/local authority etc and using this to assess whether they have a primary health care need so it's using your clinical knowledge rather than practicing / carrying out clinical procedures so not physically demanding. Generally NHS employed or carrying out on behalf of the the NHS.

I am going to echo the pps who have suggested speaking to your union re redeployment. I know someone who did this job and hated it. Don't give up your current employment rights.