To resent the U-turn on winter fuel allowance?

[BlueEyedStarling]

Perhaps I'm existing in a bubble, but all of the pensioners I know, are pretty well off, or comfortable, at least. I live and have older family in the South East, but my dad and his elderly partner, live in the North. Literally, all of them say they dont need the WFA, but happily accept it regardless and shouted from the rooftops when it was taken away from them. Just how long can the working age population keep paying for this increasing, triple-lock section of society who are, as a whole, the wealthiest amongst us? Personally, we fell through the gaps of being able to receive any child benefit (only just!), but have always been willing to accept that we didn't need it and therefore shouldn't have it. Is it that our middle-aged generation just dont shout as loudly about things that affect us? I do want to add that I am very aware that there are many pensioners who should be in receipt of the WFA and that the cut off was too low. Also, that our pensioners fair pretty badly in comparison to much of Europe. It seems criminal that it can't be means tested to benefit those who really do need it.

I’m 66 and would have got it this year. To be honest I would have just used it on Christmas presents or a treat for myself as don’t need help with fuel bills. All my older cousins have winged about it and then gone on to tell me about their three holidays abroad they’ve had. I think people of all ages who are genuinely struggling should get the help.

My Dh is 66. He had to find his kids through uni.

Too many people willing to take public money that they don't really need. I see it every day in my job.

I did as well although fees were about £3k then.

Too much misinformation on here.

Single mothers got a council house - maybe in some places but not where I lived.

CB was universal back then - family allowance in my day and not universal as nothing for first child.

Pensioners protected in COVID - COVID patients moved to care homes killing who knows how many, more likely to be denied ventilators, triple lock not protected.

Can't think of any more but that's a few to be getting on with.

By borrowing, to be paid off by the working generation.

Who were the recipients of the furlough cash - why shouldn’t they pay off what they received?

This thread makes me depressed realising that every pensioner I know is infact piss poor. I do work in LA however and from a very WC background so that’s probably why.
My own gran missed out of WFP because she is about £1600 over the pension credit threshold. I have no idea how she survives on 13k a year. It’s really miserable.

This ^

@OldwmnI hope they do.

I see this thread has just deteriorated into blaming different groups and age groups for everything.
we are living in a time following austerity, aging population, world wide pandemic, brexit, war and trump causing inflation and uncertainty. Whatever your views on all that it was going to be a difficult time with tough decisions

I personally expected to be taxed more after the pandemic and COL / war. Never mind all the rest. Otoh it’s mad to give my wealthy dad the wfa or conversely take it away at such a low threshold. Let them get on with correcting this stupid error and spend less time mud slinging

I agree OP and I'm a pensioner.
I live on state pension, do not own my own home (rent) and still manage, although recently I've been able to pick up a few hours work per month locally which gives me a bit of 'pin' money.

However, I would happily forgo the WFA to stop it being a universal benefit for all as the majority of pensioners I know (and I know know dozens and dozens of them, they're all my friends/colleagues/family in my age bracket) do not need it. They all have their own homes and good incomes from private pension schemes including my own family.

The WFA should go to those in need. If means testing is too expensive, the threshold for receiving the allowance should be raised to cover those who are just out of the limit to receive it. In addition, pensioners should be applying for it rather than it being handed out regardless, so that those in real need would be self selecting.

There are (approximately) 12 million pensioners in the country (figures vary depending on source) and only something like 1.2 million survive on state pension alone (again figures vary). I suspect there would be another 1 - 2 million (pure speculation on my part here) who really need the WFA help. That leaves a lot of others who really, really do not need the allowance at all, and they should not be getting it.

The principle you are appealing to is that the generation that benefits should be the one to fund.

You are a convert to the cause of intergenerational fairness. Welcome!

Not in the slightest. There’s no point in attempting to elicit sympathy for intergenerational unfairness from someone whose taxes have paid for two wars that ended before they were born, two generations of pensions, three generations of education and benefits they’ve never claimed. All without complaint.

We also spent most of our working lives paying off the loans to compensate the slave owners. Definitely a loan taken out well before we were born.

@TheignT The data just doesn’t back you up. In any generation some people will be big net contributors. You may be one of those.

As a cohort though, every conventional study and analysis, shows this generation is a big net beneficiary. I’m glad you aren’t complaining.

As for paying off war debt: it was paid off by borrowing more. Debt stopped falling in about 1980 and has risen since.

As for paying previous generations’ pensions. Yes. And as each generation has lived longer and longer, the pension bill for each successive generation has grown. The pension bill for the Baby Boomer generation is the highest there has ever been. The costs are being borne by current taxation and by borrowing.

No. Since about 1980 national debt has stopped falling and then rose very sharply.

That’s like wanting praise for paying off the very tail end of the mortgage, when what you’ve done is paid it off with a credit card and left the bill for that unpaid.

My parents or in-laws don't need it. To be fair they didn't kick off over it. My in-laws do regularly treat us to meals out and recently gave us 5k.

My parents have ten holidays a year, eat out twice a week and drive a flash car. Whilst they don't help us financially, they spend more than most people I know. They are certainly not saving it, so they are keeping money circulating.

DH and I both work and still money is always tight.

Also: what’s the principle here?

Go to a restaurant, order three courses and the wine.

When the bill comes ignore your costs, complain that you’ve paid for your neighbours starters and their salad and you’ve “no sympathy” with your fellow diners who are now going to have to cover your much larger bill.

We don’t want praise, we want you to stop implying we’re parasites who have never made any contribution. My first tax payment was in 1971 (33%+9% NI) I expect the last one will be after I’m dead. That looks like a serious contribution to me. Out of interest, how many tax paying years have you contributed?

I'm middle-aged, and my tax bill first reached six figures in my twenties. I make no complaint about how much I personally contribute. I can't see how your personal tax situation changes the debate either. I'm not making any claim about you.

I'm considering the generations below me, and seeing how much worse the fiscal deal has become for them. (And not just tax: property costs are a massive intergenerational transfer too. I benefit from it but I still recognise the issue).

I've not called anyone a parasite either. I've brought facts and principles, and explicitly said I'm not assigning blame to a generation for being large and voting.

If you think my claim is that the Baby Boom generation never made any contribution then no wonder you disagree (but also, you can't have read very carefully). I'm discussing being a net beneficary or a net contributor, as a cohort as a whole. If you've got data to show I'm wrong on that then please share it.

No one is saying your generation made no contribution. What the facts show is that your generation's contributions were nowhere near enough for what your generation cost.

I know a few pensioners, I find that the ones who downsized into small easy to keep flats/ bungalows that they own outright seem to be fine? I was chatting to someone yesterday she gets about 1200 a month from pensions and saves a few hundred a month of that to her ISA. She lives pretty frugally but warm and cosy , bills paid, food in doesn’t go out much but that’s because a bit unsteady, in her 80s and people come to her. It’s pensioners in rented or no larger homes requiring more maintenance which struggle generally.

Ultimately the welfare budget (including pensions) cannot be afforded going forward. There is no way that the costs can continue whichever government is in power. Really tough decisions will be made regardless of 'who contributes' or 'who deserves' the money. I can see big changes to the NHS, education etc..regardless of who is in power.

You're addressing that to me quoting someone else. What I said was I paid taxes all my working life and for most of that time one of the things that was being paid back was the loans to pay off slaves owners. That is a fact.

We paid it off.