To resent the U-turn on winter fuel allowance?

[BlueEyedStarling]

Perhaps I'm existing in a bubble, but all of the pensioners I know, are pretty well off, or comfortable, at least. I live and have older family in the South East, but my dad and his elderly partner, live in the North. Literally, all of them say they dont need the WFA, but happily accept it regardless and shouted from the rooftops when it was taken away from them. Just how long can the working age population keep paying for this increasing, triple-lock section of society who are, as a whole, the wealthiest amongst us? Personally, we fell through the gaps of being able to receive any child benefit (only just!), but have always been willing to accept that we didn't need it and therefore shouldn't have it. Is it that our middle-aged generation just dont shout as loudly about things that affect us? I do want to add that I am very aware that there are many pensioners who should be in receipt of the WFA and that the cut off was too low. Also, that our pensioners fair pretty badly in comparison to much of Europe. It seems criminal that it can't be means tested to benefit those who really do need it.

The thing is, it’s not about whether they can afford it. We know the older generation tend to be more frugal and when they see their heating costing a bomb it’s scary so they turn it off… then get sick and cost the government far more with a hospital stay. It’s a bigger picture thing and, working in a hospital, the removal of the winter fuel allowance worried me. It’s saving money in one area only to end up spending more in another.

We used it to pay fuel bills, so for what it was intended. We don’t need it now because we have moved to a smaller house, with fewer outgoings.

I see no reason for well off pensioners to receive this benefit, especially when small businesses are laying off staff because they can't afford the employers' NI rise. They're simply bowing to pressure. What else will they bow to?

There was a very interesting - and alarming - piece in yesterday's Times by Matthew Syed, about the utter foolishness and immorality of constantly kicking the can down the road, and saddling ourselves and our children with such crippling debt. We have the highest taxation for decades, yet less and less money to spend. This is because of debt interest.

I'm from a deprived, low income area and all the pensioners I know don't need it but some still cry poverty.
I think it's just a mindset a lot of older people have.
For example my aunty has hardly ever worked, happily lived off benefits her whole life. She's just inherited a house and about 140k and refused to put her heating on in the winter, kept saying she couldn't afford it!
Both sets of parents have always been low earners but now they have their pensions and no housing costs they feel a lot more comfortable, taking multiple holidays a year, buying loads of stuff out of catalogues, off QVC etc but were fuming the payments we're taken off them...Still planning 6 weeks in Australia next year though..
From what I know it doesn't need to be given to a lot of people.

I totally agree. 1 in 4 pensioners are millionaires. They don’t need the bloody allowance

Some people seem to live in a bubble … of totally not understanding how there is NO WAY these luxuries will be affordable by the state when the current person in their 30s or 40s get to pension age. No way. The population crisis will see to that. We will only be able to keep one of the below:

free social care
The NHS
State pensions
Public sector pensions funded at the current rate

The current well-off pensioners are disgustingly tone deaf. Which would you choose to keep? I think the NHS will be kept and the rest binned.

..........this is such an outrageous and excessively ridiculous suggestion I know, but.......if the cost of gas and electricity wasn't so extortionately high, maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't need a WFA. Just a thought.........💁🏻‍♀️

Agreed.

the issue is that no party wants to tell the truth about how dire public finances are. Every party thinks that if they can just lie to the public, pretending their promises are affordable until it is proven they aren’t and they get kicked out then all is good.

I want to live in a well run, prosperous country with good public services. I and every other UK citizen needs to pay an awful lot more tax to pay for this. Let’s do it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/pensioners-incomes-financial-years-ending-1995-to-2024/pensioners-incomes-financial-years-ending-1995-to-2024#overall-income-trends

here you go. Ok it only surveys 17000 pensioners but average income is between 20 and 24k so not a lot actually in the scheme of things. Ok they may not have mortgages, although quite a number do still, but for a lot just over the cut off it was felt

Not sure how they could do it but yes means test it, but it’s not something I begrudge any pensioner to be honest

How blind to society are you that you think most pensioners are wealthy. So incredibly naive.

I don't necessarily disagree that it is ridiculous to give the WFA on a blanket basis. There are plenty of OAPs that don't need it. We need to stop this ridiculous argument that 'means testing is too difficult/expensive' and find a way to give more to those that need it and less to those that don't.

The country is skint and that's the reason they cancelled WFA. Suddenly we can afford it as well as cancelling the 2 child benefit cap. Where is the money coming from - it's madness.

And yet people are buying into the crazy Reform promises.

I actually agree with Reform on a couple of things yet there's not a cat's chance in hell I'd vote for them and their magic money tree school of economics. It's what people want to hear though, and when they car crash the economy, it'll be someone else's fault of course. They couldn't run a piss up in a brewery.

Wonder how many time cruises will get a mention.

So, we're pretty much in agreement then.

I hope you read my post in it's entirely re my understanding that many pensioners should receive the benefit, that the cut off is too low, and how we fall behind in our care of the elderly compared to other European countries. I am hugely in favour of a balanced welfare state.

Based on the replies to this post this far, I don't think I am being particularly naive. There is a difference between need and entitlement.

It’s not a complete U-turn. The cutoff is being raise by an unspecified amount, which is good because Kat winter a pensioner on £12k a year got no WFA.

Yes. The oldest have had longest to provide for themselves, are least likely to have dependents, and as a group are not poor.

But I dare say you will know people who could afford to pay a lot more tax. It's just the same thing. As for the person who said they'd give it back to the treasury, why don't you just pay more tax now on top of what you pay? Just send them a cheque, they are not going to reject it.

There’s only ever shy point in means testing if it saves money. This is why they opted for such a low threshold. If they opted for the higher rate tax bracket it would cost more to work out who not to pay it to than they would save.

Perhaps it should be means tested to the same income level as CB.
peiple who earn say £49k don’t shout from the rooftops that they don’t need CB from what I hear!

I'm a pensioner, I'm actually sick of listening to TV presenters going on about it. If I hear anymore about how vulnerable I am I might do something drastic.

Agreed. I wonder if an 'opt out' system would be better then, as others have mentioned. I believe its worked well for assessing child benefit which is non-means-tested.

YANBU. The average pensioner household has the same income as the average working household but with no housing or childcare costs. And that is just income, not wealth where they are massively better off on average than the rest of the population.

It is madness to take money from young families to give to their better off parents.

I can't see why it couldn't be added to the tax code of pensioners - so effectively an age-related tax free allowance, which would help all pensioners above pension credit level but below higher rate taxation - they are the ones turning the heating off as they've not got the savings but cannot claim pension credit.

Setting up a means-testing operation would cost way more than it would save.

You’re lucky to know so many well off pensioners. I know many that aren’t so fortunate. I’d far rather we paid the allowance universally than leaving a lot of pensioners unable to heat even one room.

It's all the media coverage which has compounded the fact I feel so bubbled! It's not say that I'm unaware of, and sympathetic to, vulnerable older people, but the coverage almost always portrays it to be that way. Haha please don't do anything drastic! 💗 thank you for your candid reply