To think car ownership is out of control in the UK

[JacquesHarlow]

I fully expect to get a vast majority of "YABU" comments, but here goes:

Firstly, before I get flamed - I am a woman, a car owner, and yes I have a driveway now (though didn't before). I am a car enthusiast in terms of the enjoyment I've got from driving and I don't have an issue with "cars" per se.

What I have an issue with is how ridiculous Britain's councils and governments are on car ownership. How cheap car ownership is. How anyone can distort the living environment around them with their choices.

Have you driven down a suburban street lately, or even an urban one?

Small and narrow Victorian streets with lines of cars packed on either side, and only room for one vehicle to drive down it. Why so many cars? The houses have been there for 150 years. Why now?

And because so many people (often fellow women, annoyingly) don't ever like reversing, you find yourself caught in the middle, having to reverse right back to the end of the street to start again.

School runs are chaos - so many cars, parking up in illegal or careless ways, purely to save a short distance walking.

And the size of cars! Absurdly large vehicles which then take up more road space on the kerbside. Yeah it is "legal" but in a decade where theoretically we want to get better as a country environmentally, most people do not give two fucks as long as their precious DCs are "safe" (you're just as safe in a NCAP 5* rated Yaris as you are in a Merc GLS, but try telling that to people where I live).

So this is the madness of today:

Cars are SO much bigger. And thanks to PCP they're cheaper - and this is why I see so many cars where I live ,and up north when I visit, and everywhere else. The PCP monthlies thing keys right into the British obsession of wanting to look and feel wealthy. Years ago a Golf or an Audi A3 would be considered posh for a family. But why would I buy a Golf when my monthly payments could get me into something BIGGER!

The one thing that isn't bigger, is the United Kingdom. I've seen councils in London paint "parking lines" half on the pavement so that people can park up on either side to let cars past. I've seen people in these Discoveries and Defenders mount kerbs at drop off time without a thought or care for who might be behind them or even aware of this being an issue.

And you can have 1 household in a street of 20 houses own 5 cars. You do the maths as to how much of the available parking is then taken away.

Why are people so aggressive and discourteous in their car ownership? What are we going to do about this?

Some of us remember 20 or 30 years ago when you could drive to another street and not have to face a x5 barrelling towards you, parked cars either side? With a tiny woman peering over the steering wheel refusing to reverse back into the space immediately behind her? But powering through so that you, in your little hatchback, have to reverse 10 car lengths to accommodate her ego and lack of driving skill?

Our city and town streets are not made for X5s, Discoveries, Range Rover Sports, and god knows what else, to be parked along the kerbside blocking out the light into tiny terraced houses.

How do we put a stop to this? I love the Japanese principle in certain cities where you have to name a parking space you own or have access to before you buy a car. Could this work here?

AIBU? How will we ever wean ourselves off this 'bigger is better, and every member of my family must have a car' mentality?

My 18 year old has been looking for summer work, she does not drive. A pub about 6 miles away was looking for staff, it takes 15 min to drive there, if she got public transport, it would take 1 hr 30.
She's recently had some temporary work, the journey took 1 hr in the car, or 2 hours by various public transport. On some days we gave her a lift other days she used public transport, but that was bearable because it was short term

Why is that ridiculous?

For example, Mum and Dad working full time in different locations, plus their 3 late teens/young adult children sharing a car to get to their part time work, college etc.

Our road has gotten quite bad over the last few years, cars double parked, parked on corners etc. You have to be really careful not to scratch anything getting in and out of the road, having to go around corners on the wrong side of the road etc. There’s often children playing as well and it’s just a nightmare for visibility, it’s really dangerous tbh.

What annoys me is that the vast majority of the properties are privately owned and all have space for a two car drive but lots just have grass and park in the road. We have a drive fortunately but if we didn’t I would certainly make it a priority. I’m admit I’m probably unreasonable about that though!

I drive an SUV so can’t comment on the size of cars but I see dreadful driving from those driving small cars as well to be honest.

Exactly @ARichtGoodDram

And this is what needs to happen. A government and councils working together with a very aggressive and positive , funded policy, that gives an alternative which makes multiple car ownership seem absurd.

Instead we will get people on here, and elsewhere, arguing till they're blue in the face that public transport doesn't go where "they want to go" and therefore it's useless and irrelevant.

But why? You want working families' lives to be harder just so that you don't have to squeeze your car down someone else's street the odd time you travel past the Watford Gap? Get on your bike (both literally and figuratively)

I am in NE Scotland. Buses are few and far between; don’t run after 7pm or on Sundays. Won’t get you to work on time as they don’t start early enough. There is no rail network covering my routes.

So at no point will I be taking public transport, in the vain hope that my doing so will make it improve.

I'm on your side about cars, but the problem is how rubbish public transport is and not how cheap cars are. I grew up in a village with about four buses a day to the nearest town, last one was 6pm; I just looked and its the same now. No bus that takes you to the nearest drs surgery in the next village. You'd need them to run every 30 minutes, and until at least 10 at night to stop driving from being attractive. Parking is already pretty expensive in the town itself and it doesn't put people off because they don't really have a choice unless they are able to make, say, a 15 minute dentist appointment last half a day.

Better cycling infrastructure would help, too.

But I do absolutely agree on the size of cars: I see so many nowadays that don't really fit in parking spaces. I appreciate people in rural areas might need or benefit from 4x4s, but few people need them to be so massive.

I mean couldn’t more people have I’m going there… mopeds.

Does every single trip require a 5 seater car.

None of that is ridiculous per se, @Butterflyfern

What is ridiculous is that people who haven't made those lifestyle choices, are forced to suffer the lifestyle choices of those who have, and who then litter streets with cars so that the street becomes practically undriveable with nowhere for visitors to park.

Until you've lived in it or visited one, you just won't get it.

I agree and I'm a driver.

It's the multiple car owners per one household that gets me. Some families have five, one for each kid and parent and expect the space to park it all.

I think the government should put a limit of how cars per household but they wouldn't because they are too soft. I only have one car at my household. Any more than 2 is ridiculous.

I cycle already thank you very much.

It's cos it's easier.

So many people are adamant that they NEED their car. They don't. It's just easier. They lack resilience.

The local job centre used no cars for a week last year. I thought it was a brilliant idea! Everyone managed it, but quite a few people complained about walking 10 minutes or getting up half an hour earlier.

Where will the funding be coming from to pay for these public transport upgrades?

How would you solve the issue until the infrastructure is there so that people can travel about in the 24/7 society we now are?

🙄 even on a car ownership thread, the Reform mentionitus continues.

It's a vicious circle, though. If the public transport network isn't invested in and expanded, people will have no choice but to continue to drive. Personally I'd ditch my car if I could get everywhere I needed to by public transport, but I live semi-rurally and it's not possible. Too many destinations are too far to walk to and aren't served by public transport. I really don't think it's laziness that's driving (no pun intended) the widespread car use we see in this country.

This disabled person who couldn't use public transport even if there were any where I live will give up her car when the OP does. Seems she's happy to have her own choices provided nobody else gets any. Why can't she walk or use public transport - then she wouldn't have to criticise other peoples (mostly women's) driving because it would have no impact on her.

ANyone who tinks there is plenty of public transprt clearly lives in a ver small area of the country, because in most of it public transport is almost non-existant, unreliable and often costly.

Brilliantly said @Toastandbutterand

I think the other big issue is that I've raised something on here which people all know about. But very few people in government or those who are affected, actually want to do the tough things to get it changed.

It's one of those where streets can fill up to breaking point, car parks can see multiple scratching and dinging incidents, people can have scratches and gouges to their cars from streets getting narrower due to wider cars...

and yet if any solutions are presented, the reply will always be

"I need to get to work/public transport is shit / my kid needs a car to get to college / we have a weekend car to visit my mother" etc

Every one of these people has a reason to have multiple cars, but where is the space and safety and regulation to help us still enjoy where we live as a result?

Agree on both counts. But a lot of the problem with the size of cars is the relatively recent rules re safety etc., such as thicker doors containing better structural support against side impacts, etc. It's really hard to find "small" cars these days, so it's not necessarily just people "choosing" big cars. Eg. one of ours is a 17 year old Citroen C3 which is a pretty small car. We've just bought a brand new one which is bigger in every direction, yet still the smallest in the current Citroen range. Sit in it and it's actually smaller due to the wider doors, etc. Another aspect is that people themselves are larger on average than they were a few decades ago, so need more space to actually get in and be comfortable, i.e. bigger doors, broader seats, etc.

Re public transport, yes. I once worked in the next town over, just 20 miles away across the county border. 25 minutes door to door by car. I once had to go by train for a few days, when my car was in for repair. Complete nightmare. Took around 3 hours door to door, bearing in mind walk to/from station at both ends, then two changes of trains (so 3 different trains in total). Only about 15 minutes actually "on" moving trains, but most of the time hanging around stations waiting for connections. Never again! After that, I just took the car to garages which offered a courtesy car! There were no direct buses as it was across the county boundary, so buses would take even longer as I'd have to go further away at each end to the larger cities, to get more rural "feeder" buses to/from the bigger cities to the town where I lived and the town where I worked, so more like 4 hours, but they didn't start early enough to get me to work for 9am anyway!

My mother is disabled and has been for twenty five years. Please don't try and guilt and shame me with that argument. I think that's rather low of you @PhilippaGeorgiou

"It's typical Mumsnet"

and yet, here you are.

Are you a force for change and what would you propose?

Or is it just a grumble?

You’re being ridiculous. Why should I drive a Yaris they are hideous. Some people like cars, some handbags, some clothes, some fancy kitchens. As Pliny as you work hard for it you get to pick how you spend your money.

OP, the amount of traffic on the roads bugs me as much as it does you (especially after dark with these awful dazzling headlights cars are fitted with nowadays!), but I feel that talk of motorists 'weaning' themselves off their cars misses the point somewhat. IME multi-car households are a thing of necessity for many because people need to travel in different directions, mainly for work. It was so much easier for households only having one car when more people could bus/walk/cycle to work (and when fewer women had jobs to travel to, come to that), but times and commutes have changed so much that imo if we want to cut down on car use, the public transport network needs a drastic overhaul/expansion. Until that happens, it's a moot point imho.

I've never understood why people in London would even need a car, unless they physically can't take public transport or their job depends on it.

We live a 15min walk from the tube, and there's a reliable bus to it at the end of our road. Yet, most people on our street have cars and get VERY very annoyed about parking.

What do they even use their cars for? I'd really like to know!

Public transport is unreliable and expensive. I commute to a big city once per week and the cost of park and ride is more than paying for a full day of parking, when split with DH. Plus the park and ride buses and slow, they only run every 20 mins and are quite often full. We don’t have a train station in our village and the bus runs twice per day.

It’s difficult to buy a car that isn’t an SUV these days if you need a car big enough for a family. There are not many estate or saloon cars being made.

Most families need two working parents so two cars. Lots of mums on the school run are driving to work not going back home for the day.

Lots of teens living at home for longer means multiple cars per household. Although this was always the case for my household, there were three of us at home at once point aged 17-21 all with a car which was needed as we lived rurally and needed them to get to work and college.

Did they also stop telling their clients to look for jobs two to three hours away from home and telling them that no public transport is no excuse