To think car ownership is out of control in the UK

[JacquesHarlow]

I fully expect to get a vast majority of "YABU" comments, but here goes:

Firstly, before I get flamed - I am a woman, a car owner, and yes I have a driveway now (though didn't before). I am a car enthusiast in terms of the enjoyment I've got from driving and I don't have an issue with "cars" per se.

What I have an issue with is how ridiculous Britain's councils and governments are on car ownership. How cheap car ownership is. How anyone can distort the living environment around them with their choices.

Have you driven down a suburban street lately, or even an urban one?

Small and narrow Victorian streets with lines of cars packed on either side, and only room for one vehicle to drive down it. Why so many cars? The houses have been there for 150 years. Why now?

And because so many people (often fellow women, annoyingly) don't ever like reversing, you find yourself caught in the middle, having to reverse right back to the end of the street to start again.

School runs are chaos - so many cars, parking up in illegal or careless ways, purely to save a short distance walking.

And the size of cars! Absurdly large vehicles which then take up more road space on the kerbside. Yeah it is "legal" but in a decade where theoretically we want to get better as a country environmentally, most people do not give two fucks as long as their precious DCs are "safe" (you're just as safe in a NCAP 5* rated Yaris as you are in a Merc GLS, but try telling that to people where I live).

So this is the madness of today:

Cars are SO much bigger. And thanks to PCP they're cheaper - and this is why I see so many cars where I live ,and up north when I visit, and everywhere else. The PCP monthlies thing keys right into the British obsession of wanting to look and feel wealthy. Years ago a Golf or an Audi A3 would be considered posh for a family. But why would I buy a Golf when my monthly payments could get me into something BIGGER!

The one thing that isn't bigger, is the United Kingdom. I've seen councils in London paint "parking lines" half on the pavement so that people can park up on either side to let cars past. I've seen people in these Discoveries and Defenders mount kerbs at drop off time without a thought or care for who might be behind them or even aware of this being an issue.

And you can have 1 household in a street of 20 houses own 5 cars. You do the maths as to how much of the available parking is then taken away.

Why are people so aggressive and discourteous in their car ownership? What are we going to do about this?

Some of us remember 20 or 30 years ago when you could drive to another street and not have to face a x5 barrelling towards you, parked cars either side? With a tiny woman peering over the steering wheel refusing to reverse back into the space immediately behind her? But powering through so that you, in your little hatchback, have to reverse 10 car lengths to accommodate her ego and lack of driving skill?

Our city and town streets are not made for X5s, Discoveries, Range Rover Sports, and god knows what else, to be parked along the kerbside blocking out the light into tiny terraced houses.

How do we put a stop to this? I love the Japanese principle in certain cities where you have to name a parking space you own or have access to before you buy a car. Could this work here?

AIBU? How will we ever wean ourselves off this 'bigger is better, and every member of my family must have a car' mentality?

So you should. I pay higher council tax partly because my house has a drive, so why should you be able to park on the road for free?

The quality and quantity of public transport seems to regularly get used as a justification for everyone needing a car of their own. Some people live in rural areas where driving is unavoidable, but over 80% of the UK population don't. I must be exceptionally lucky. I've lived in 3 cities (never in the city centre) and generally have always had plenty of buses and trains. There's always room for improvement, but I have always been able to get about. Most of my neighbours.and colleagues who travel similar distances (work in the city centre 9-5), have cars. I have no doubt a car is more convenient for them, but it is not a necessity for most. It's definitely a case of want and not need.

You’re not wrong and I have many similar gripes. I live in an affluent area in the NW and the number of Chelsea tractors is just absurd. However, I think central planning has a lot to answer for here. Unsurprisingly, other countries do it so much better. Have you noticed how few new build apartment blocks have underground carparks? Same goes for shopping centres. There’s either a tiny one on the roof or none at all. It’s more expensive so they don’t do it but so much more sensible.

With the cost of living many working adults live in shared houses with say 3/4 friends living together - my sister is in her 20s a working professional in this situation, living on a terraced street. They don't live in London and all need a car if not for getting to work (hospital) but for visiting patients. If you brought in a system of 1 car per household that would be 4 NHS workers (physio, OT, Dr and Nurse) unable to do there jobs. You can't just stop people owning cars when they need them - I think you would find the entire system of our country would collapse as half of us wouldn't show up for work.

Yup same here. I'm more than happy to be in the smaller car camp.

I mean where we live there is basically no public transport.
From September I will have to drive my oldest to secondary school, after dropping my youngest off with a friend who will walk him to school.
The only other alternative is to have a just turned 11 year old walk for well over 2 hours, potentially in the rain, along a main road at 7am in the morning, returning at 5pm in the evening. Obviously this will be better (lighter) in the summer than the winter, but it’s walking past and in part through hunting grounds where grouse, rabbits and deer are often culled. I cannot tell you how much I do not want this to happen.
My son is also autistic and has severe germ issues with busses, as well as scoliosis that can end up damaging his spine if a bus hits a pothole too quickly….
Therefore we will go by car.
But please, tell me your plans that can help us?

I would say you have been exceptionally fortunate if you have always had good public transport. Away from Cities moving into towns, the timing and availability of public transport is woeful in many places.

Working in the immediate town/city centre isn't the norm. Many people will work in hospitals, factories, retail parks etc.

Using myself as example. If I was to go to the hospital from my place. A half mile walk along an unlit road with no pavement, A bus into the local town that goes round the houses and takes 30 minutes, Get off in the town centre and get on another bus that goes round the houses and is around 30 minutes again. All to travel a distance of just over 15 miles.
So around 2.5 hours commute every day often in rubbish weather.

Rather than charging people more for driving huge cars, just make it mandatory to do a driving test to prove you can actually manoeuvre it safely - most people wouldn’t pass lol - problem solved!

(I include myself here - there is a reason I drive a Mini!)

I don’t want to drive or own a car, but there’s no public transport where I live, and no shops within walking distance.

As a result, parking is ridiculous in my area. Every street is crammed with parked cars on both sides. Some small Victorian terraces with no drive have 3 or 4 cars for the whole family. I often have to park a 15/20-minute walk from my house - and it can take ages and ages to find a space.

Our national train service is an absolute disgrace - I can spend 6 hours and £300 travelling to see my parents on a filthy overheated train with no working toilets and no food or drink to buy onboard (as happened last 2 times I travelled), or 8 hours and a fraction of that cost driving in comfort with air con, snacks, radio / audio book on, and leg room.

The govt needs to urgently invest in public transport nationwide, especially in rural areas, and encourage car sharing schemes. We can’t go on like this.

Because society has dictated that women have to work and raise kids. So now we need transportation to get to work, get the kids to child care. And whilst we are at it the kids must do millions of extra curricular activities so need to be ferried to those, otherwise we aren't deemed good parents. And ofcourse the men need to get to work too...

Maybe society in general needs to change imo.

There are more cars because nearly everyone has to work. On the school run, most parents are continuing on to work.

You’re not wrong about the size issue.

But who is society? It's us! We are society.

I don't get this "society forced me to..." stuff. Nobody can force you to quit your job. Usually, it's a choice made on the basis of one partner earning more. Typically the man as often he'll be a few years older and further up his career ladder.

So we hear women say things like "well, it made sense for me to go part time as he earns more". But that only makes sense if you prioritise money or absolutely can't afford it the other way around. In a lot of cases it could work the other way but it might mean a smaller house, less holidays, older cars, etc.

I can see why people prioritise quality of living, especially as doing the alternative as a matter of principle is hardly going to be a drop in the ocean to wider society but will have significant impact upon individual couples. However, if we continue to make that choice then things won't change.

Not meaning this personally. Your post just touched upon a common sentiment.

I know the discussion wasn't about women quitting their jobs but it's a similar motivation. The man's job is the most important so the woman takes on all the duties.

i feel the same about the size of the bloody 4x4s taking up all the space.
I can see the future being different. Maybe cars will be rented on demand, a bit like the bikes are now in cities. And private car ownership will be limited to one small vehicle per household.
But for this to happen, public transport needs to be reliable and affordable for all, even in rural areas.
I would gladly give up my (old small) one family car if this future utopia came true, as I hate the stress of dealing with MOTs and the tyres getting wrecked constantly in bloody pot holes.

This was precisely my point, thank you!

Looking back 50 years ago, women stayed at home with the kids whilst the husband worked (usually locally) so there wasn't much need as nobody really went out of their area. Now it's hard to get a job in your town that your trained to do, public transport adds on hours to your day if you were to do that. Middle of a night emergency? You'd have to pay fees for a taxi, and wait around for it also! You've got to take kids to nursery (if your lucky sometimes grandparents) so if you were to do all that via walking/public transport again more time added to your day. I work 30 mins away at a hospital, I wouldn't want to add on an hour each way for transport and also be stuck on weekends due to the timings. My husband works 20 mins away (he has a work van) he takes the child to nursery which is a 5 min away but would be a 20 minute walk if he was to do that, and then rush to work (he wouldn't get there in time if he walked to nursery and then back home for his van).
have to admit, I live in terraced house and our road has become quite full due to the amount of people having 2 cars/vans. But what can you do? I'd say majority of jobs in my town would be working in a shop, cafe, restaurant that is minimum wage, they don't match our skills or career choices (and we don't want to live closer to work as the areas are a bit rough and all our family live here and a lot of our friends

So, you want to have a car, but you don't want other people to be able to afford it? I have a car, I could not get to work without it. Our public transport system is horrendous, expensive and unsafe. When I went to Copenhagen I realised why lots of people dont drive there. The public transport is cheap, reliable and plentiful & is actually easier than driving. If you dont provide a good alternative people will continue to require their own transport. More people are driving now because people don't work or socialise locally, not so long ago maby people in an area would be employed by factories, shipyards etc in that area and wouldn't have to travel for work, that's no longer the case and people need to go further afield, with no reliable way of getting there of course you need a car.

Nail on the head. My mother barely left her immediate area as she had everything on her doorstep, huge range of shops, doctor, dentist, library, etc. That was a suburb of a large town with its own major high street. For me, secondary school within easy walking distance, sports and recreational facilities in a large park, and all my early jobs were local, being shops and guest houses in school holidays etc. Even father worked in easy walking distance as parts manager at a dealership garage.

Now all that’s gone. They ended up having to move because the whole area became a shadow of its former self as most of the shops closed, then the doctors merged and closed the surgery, then the garage closed, as did the library and school. All the life was sucked out of the area as things were centralised elsewhere.

On the rare occasions I go back to that , I could weep as it’s all so run down, with anti social problems, a few derelict or burned out shops and houses, the only shops are money laundering places or betting or vape shops. The decent people moved out leaving a vacuum filled by problem people mostly bussed in from other regions. People moved out because most of the local amenities had been taken away.

It really was the case a few decades ago that people really could do almost everything without needing a car because most things really were within walking distance. Jobs, shops, education, healthcare, etc. Planners and politicians have really screwed up the country.

Nail on the head.

But people drive even when there are facilities nearby, they even drive a short distance to walk their dog... i've seen it, beauty spots, within v easy walking distance of their homes... small housing estate nr our local supermarket, people drive the 200m to shop....

Walking and cycling are excellent alternatives for shorter journeys but are frowned upon, even discouraged by us/society, planners, Government... its all about the car, the car is king...

& no wonder, fuel duty and VED raises £32 billion per year... hardly any of which is spent on roads and mtce.

Discouraging car use will never happen.

But you are just fine because you have a drive. Who are you, the car police...You have no idea why people may need bigger cars , maybe they are disabled and need to carry equipment like wheelchairs and oxygen, or maybe they want a big car because they like them....what has it got to do with you....

Unless there’s huge changes with public transport people will continue to use cars simple as that

where I live the nearest bus stop is 45 min walk away and there’s two busses a day - no busses get me to work So I’ve got to use my car. I’m rural so I need a 4x4

plenty of places in the uk are very much like this - it’s only the major towns and cities that have decent public transport

also car ownership isn’t cheap - insurance is ££ fuel,road tax, mot and service/ repairs etc can be pricey

Lots of people don't have local amenities to walk to! I know that there'll be some lazy arses who drive to the bottom of their street, but that's the minority not the majority. In the village where I now live and work, just 20 years ago, it had several shops, GP, pharmacy, 3 pubs, library, primary school, bus stops, etc. In just those 20 years, all that's gone yet the village has increased in size by 50%. I'm sure most of the villagers would love to be able to walk to local amenities instead of driving to nearby towns, but there's literally nothing to walk to anymore, literally just a couple of post boxes! That's a large village with around 7,000 inhabitants. One by one, the shops and other amenities have been converted into homes and a couple of small professional offices (used by local professionals for their own self employment, so not employing anyone!). It's the same story in other villages (large and small) throughout our local area. Even our nearest town (10,000 people) has seen it's main shopping street taken over by money laundering shops inc Turkish Barbers, nail bars, vape shops, an ethnic convenience store that never has any customers, etc! Nothing at all for locals to walk to for their shopping!

When I was doing a community-based job, I found it intensely frustrating and timewasting trying to park within reasonable walking distance of clients' homes. I don't think we can put the genie back in the bottle; most people are time-poor these days, and would struggle to live reasonably without cars which are quick, convenient and safe. We need better roads, we need to stop building new devlopments with single-track access roads (presumably done in order to jam more houses in), we need more, and cheaper, parking, and we need a vastly improved public transport system so that people who dont drive for whatever reason can still live their lives.

It always surprises me when people living in London choose to run a car, as it's often more trouble than it's worth and there are lots of viable alternatives. However, living in a village - not a particularly rural one - we certainly need our two cars to get around. Buses do run here but they are infrequent and unreliable and once out of the village there's no chance of walking anywhere, as the roads are narrow and winding and there are no pavements. There is also no affordable taxi service either. We live in a terraced cottage and have to park on the road a few minutes away from our house, which isn't madly convenient, but we manage. My children live in the nearby smallish city and one of them lives on the type of Victorian terraced street you refer to - which involves a permanent state of car wars! However, until public transport is frequent, reliable, cheap and clean this is the way that it will be. For the majority of people, a car is a necessity to get to work and anywhere else they need to be.

Your point about cars getting bigger is an interesting one. We had to replace the better of our two cars recently and deliberately chose a crossover vehicle - one which is between the size of an ordinary smallish car and an SUV. Our second car is a very old Yaris, which is fine for short journeys, but I never feel particularly safe in it these days when driving longer distances and using motorways as everything else is so big in comparison! I think a lot of other people feel the same and so this is a self-perpetuating phenomenon. I think something could be done about the cost of taxing and generally running SUVs to encourage those who really don't need to have them to select something smaller.

But at the end of it, I don't suppose you want to give up your car, I certainly don't want to give up mine and most people feel the same, so we are at an impasse!