To think car ownership is out of control in the UK

[JacquesHarlow]

I fully expect to get a vast majority of "YABU" comments, but here goes:

Firstly, before I get flamed - I am a woman, a car owner, and yes I have a driveway now (though didn't before). I am a car enthusiast in terms of the enjoyment I've got from driving and I don't have an issue with "cars" per se.

What I have an issue with is how ridiculous Britain's councils and governments are on car ownership. How cheap car ownership is. How anyone can distort the living environment around them with their choices.

Have you driven down a suburban street lately, or even an urban one?

Small and narrow Victorian streets with lines of cars packed on either side, and only room for one vehicle to drive down it. Why so many cars? The houses have been there for 150 years. Why now?

And because so many people (often fellow women, annoyingly) don't ever like reversing, you find yourself caught in the middle, having to reverse right back to the end of the street to start again.

School runs are chaos - so many cars, parking up in illegal or careless ways, purely to save a short distance walking.

And the size of cars! Absurdly large vehicles which then take up more road space on the kerbside. Yeah it is "legal" but in a decade where theoretically we want to get better as a country environmentally, most people do not give two fucks as long as their precious DCs are "safe" (you're just as safe in a NCAP 5* rated Yaris as you are in a Merc GLS, but try telling that to people where I live).

So this is the madness of today:

Cars are SO much bigger. And thanks to PCP they're cheaper - and this is why I see so many cars where I live ,and up north when I visit, and everywhere else. The PCP monthlies thing keys right into the British obsession of wanting to look and feel wealthy. Years ago a Golf or an Audi A3 would be considered posh for a family. But why would I buy a Golf when my monthly payments could get me into something BIGGER!

The one thing that isn't bigger, is the United Kingdom. I've seen councils in London paint "parking lines" half on the pavement so that people can park up on either side to let cars past. I've seen people in these Discoveries and Defenders mount kerbs at drop off time without a thought or care for who might be behind them or even aware of this being an issue.

And you can have 1 household in a street of 20 houses own 5 cars. You do the maths as to how much of the available parking is then taken away.

Why are people so aggressive and discourteous in their car ownership? What are we going to do about this?

Some of us remember 20 or 30 years ago when you could drive to another street and not have to face a x5 barrelling towards you, parked cars either side? With a tiny woman peering over the steering wheel refusing to reverse back into the space immediately behind her? But powering through so that you, in your little hatchback, have to reverse 10 car lengths to accommodate her ego and lack of driving skill?

Our city and town streets are not made for X5s, Discoveries, Range Rover Sports, and god knows what else, to be parked along the kerbside blocking out the light into tiny terraced houses.

How do we put a stop to this? I love the Japanese principle in certain cities where you have to name a parking space you own or have access to before you buy a car. Could this work here?

AIBU? How will we ever wean ourselves off this 'bigger is better, and every member of my family must have a car' mentality?

OP why are you not getting public transport to visit your friends? You’re contributing to the very problem you’re complaining about by taking your car.

very convenient that you haven’t answered this question.

20 years ago i remember visiting my friend who lived on a victorian terrace street and having to drive my peugeot 106 down between 2 rows of parked cars, and having whoever was coming the other way often not wanting to reverse.

20 years ago my neighbour used to park his work van in front of my house, and the people opposite had their work van and a caravan and reversing out of my drive was tricky but doable.

40 years ago it was pretty similar an my nan's - we always had to park quite a long way away at Christmas.

Driving down to my parents it's still the same - most houses have a drive, but there's cars on the road (half on the pavement) too - always have been, similar numbers.

I don't think it's changed that much TBH.. Perhaps more kids staying at home for longer so more adults in a house, but I think you're harking back to a golden age that didn't exist.

Actually, it is true that cars are wider now than ever. But given I always lived places where people had a family car and a work van, I guess I don't notice that as much, since big vehicles were always around

As the OP isn't answering questions, may I suggest she writes a thesis on this passionate subject of hers. Surely that would be way more fruitful than telling other people how many cars and what type they 'should be allowed' to own. This is all very controlling.

EVs tend to be heavier but not bigger (larger dimensions) than ICEs.

Within 10 years or so the mass will probably reduce due to solid state batteries as well.

Personally, I think the bigger problems is works vans. So many self employed tradesmen who have transit or long wheel based vans or small pick up trucks PLUS a car for the wife AND a car for them when they're not working. So at least 3 vehicles. Then often a car or two for their adult children still living at home. In the streets I know with severe parking problems, it's tradesmen vans that cause the most trouble, as they are longer and wider than normal cars, and are the ones partly blocking pavements, parking between drives taking up all the available space where 2 "normal" cars could have parked, etc.

If anything, I think vans, pick up trucks, camper vans, etc should be the vehicles who need permits for parking in residential areas. Cars aren't really the problem.

Men refusing to reverse (which I agree a minority of them can be arseholes about) and women not wanting to isn’t the same. I agree with OP that a lot more women panic about things like that, most of my female friends can’t parallel park and I’ve been sat in a car with them panicking as they have to reverse. I’ve had to swap seats with one friend a couple of times as she couldn’t do it and even had to park her car.

Thank you for sharing @brunettemic - this is exactly the kind of thing I was referring to.

And sadly I too have had similar. I have seen colleagues and friends sit for ages in a kind of "standoff" because they patently cannot reverse, and go into a kind of fugue state or panic if the road conditions asks it of them.

We just can't have a situation long term in the UK where people aren't willing to reverse their (much bigger than before) cars.

I have had to reverse 10, 15 cars length, along a busy packed street, while someone who could have reversed two car lengths into a large space, refused to. I have places to get to, I can't just sit there and be "assertive" in these cases.

What fascinates me is how it is amazing what people will endure, just so that they don't have to reverse. To do a basic fundamental part of the "life skill" they boast to everyone they have.

That reminds me of my school days.

One bus every two hours that the last bus of the day was touch and go to catch after school. If I had an after school club there were no busses. The kids that had to rely on that bus to get home used to be allowed out of school 5 minutes earlier than everyone else to be able to catch it!

I got the train instead which was thankfully free, but was still only once an hour.

I can't say that's my regular experience, no 🙄. I don't get the bus on a regular basis any more because I live in rural Cornwall, but I got one at the weekend and the only dominant demographic I would say was "hiker". But I used to get public transport constantly when I lived in London, and smelly, antisocial people were a tiny minority.

Why are there more cars? Because of how our life is. For example both DH and I drive to work. If I got the train to work I’d have to get a train at 6:46am (but I’d also need to drive to that station as the earliest train from my station means I’d miss that one), to arrive at 8:00 and then walk 30 mins to just about make it on time. That isn’t feasible with a family. I’ve no idea how DH would do it, maybe 3 buses.
There’s just a lot more going on in life these days than there used to be, the kids do more activities (eg DS has football matches all over the city, DD has drama at the same time on a Saturday).
Sure, we’d be as safe in a Yaris as other cars but we also wouldn’t fit in a Yaris, DH is 6’3, DS is taller than me already. Plus the dog and some stuff if we’re all going out.

Arguing over hens teeth there... plenty of EVs are bigger than comparable ICE vehicles and their extra weight is a real issue for our crumbling roads.

Then there is the loss of fuel duty revenue, which will have to make them more expensive to buy/tax/charge.... its a £27 billion loss if we all switched and its completely unfair to load that on the remaining ICE vehicles, as it'll be the less well off with them....

Not least in social care, where this vital role is done with people who, generally speaking, drive pretty ropey cars, as thats all they can afford... even a 2nd hand EV is totally out of their reach.

Whatever the issues with ICE vehicles, they aren't going to go away as much as Govt's might want.

"Plenty of public transport..." You're clearly speaking for yourself. Where I live public transport is virtually non-existent.

ANY attempt to reduce car ownership HAS to begin with a massive improvement of public transport.

Maybe if the rest of the country had a transport infrastructure like London they wouldn’t need a car?

But they don’t. l’m in a big city. Our bus service has been cut from every 15 minutes to every 40 mins. How do you propose we travel to places?

To travel to London for 3 people on the train costs £500 quid. So we go on the car.

Simple really

London doesn't equal the entire country. In lots of places, it's the "anti social" people who use buses, not "normal" commuters, shoppers, etc.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Maybe if the rest of the country had a transport infrastructure like London they wouldn’t need a car?

Nail on the head. Those living/working in London generally don't have a clue about how bad the trains and buses are out in the regions.

Rail cards bring the price down, cars aren't cheap to buy or run

So every bus has smelly alcoholics and dangerous dogs? Blimey

So you think LA works well?

But we don’t use the trains enough to warrant one.

Cars aren’t cheap to run or buy, but they are used all the time so worth the investment.

We shouldn't need rail cards. They're just to hide the "mug pricing" of overcharging those who don't care abut money (large employers) or those who are disorganised. We should have sensible realistic pricing in the first place.

Rail cards are also problematic in that they're not flexible. Most middle aged people aren't eligible for one on their own as they're not going to qualify for the "under 25" or "over 60" or whatever. So they'd be looking at "two together" or similar, which are no good if you're not always travelling with the same other person - they're useless for travel on your own or if you go with someone different.

Re cars, the purchase and fixed costs are "sunk costs", so once you have a car, the decision whether to drive or use a train is made solely on marginal cost, i.e. cost of fuel and parking against cost of the train fares. If you already have a car for other reasons, such as commuting, etc., then you're really not going to leave it parked at home and use a train for a specific journey that costs 3/4 times more than the petrol, even with a rail card.

i find public transport absolutely horrific. sharing space, waiting, people, cost.

Driving however, ive never been stressed. i'm happiest when i'm always "on"
I've driven all over Europe just for fun, i drive horse lorries, tow trailers, i can jump in any vehicle and just, drive. i'd rather be sat in traffic in the comfort of my cars than going a little faster (potentially) on a bus/train.

That said, ive not been on a bus since i was about 12 and can count of one hand how many times i've been on a train. public transport doesnt fit in to my life, not enough hours in the day for that!!

I haven't read the entire thread, but you do know that the population has massively expanded right? So even if the ratio of cars to people is the same, there are MORE cars now than there were 20 years ago?

But I agree re public transport. Outside of major cities, it's shit. Not just in terms of regularity, but also the variety. We live on the London/Surrey border - so not exactly out in the countryside. With the exception of the golf club that DS likes to go to, not a single one of the DC's activities are reachable by convenient public transport. If we are willing to walk for 12 minutes into our local village, we can get a variety of busses ..... weirldy though, they all go to the same large town. So basically, we can get to that town really easily, but nowhere else.

That means yesterday DH took DS to the rugby club. Today I will take DD to dance class while DH takes DS to gym. I will take DD to her swimming less on Thursday evening.

DS used to do an activity that had a bus... one an hour, stopping at 6:30. So he could get there alone if he was willing to arrive 30 minute searly, but he couldn't get home.

My neice and nephew go to a school that is 4 miles from their house and there is no bus/train that even vaguelly gets them there without along, convoluted journey. We considered an excellent faith school for DD which would have been a bit further away than a local state school, and one reason we decided against it was that while she could take a train from our local station, if she misses the school bus from the station to school or is travelling at odd times, it's a LONG walk with no public transport options.

cars become essential for these situations.

Enough hours in the day to drive for fun

Railcards arent a perfect solution i agree, i was referring to a poster who mentioned 3 people, so assumed a family

https://images.app.goo.gl/x2CnHUuKogxrxBiD8

this was out this morning on my home, I’ve seen a couple where I live. I think you can get similar with 2 seats at the back for children & its electric

ideal for short trips