To think MIL shouldn't have said this

[rainbowsbutterfliescompromise]

13 year old daughter just showed MIL a new dress she bought for a family wedding (strappy floral New Look thing).

MIL said she liked it but then said "you need to make sure you don't wear clothes like that when walking outside as men might harass you or worse".

Aside from the fact that she isn't likely to be walking around in public in said dress, I'm really not happy with MIL implying my daughter is responsible for men's behaviour. I can still remember having this said to me as a teen and how uncomfortable it made me feel. I also remember being catcalled by men on the street - never in party clothes but more than often than not in my frumpy school uniform or a tracksuit.

I asked my husband to have a word, but he said there was no point and 'that's just the way her generation think'. AIBU to think that's a massive cop out?

She's trying to protect your daughter. Have you or your husband had the chat with DD on how to protect herself against predatory men yet? It might be time.

@INeedAnotherName no, read below. I don't think it's time yet. Will be soon though.

She may be trying to protect my daughter but I still feel it was inappropriate. I take on board the need to deal with the reality of male behaviour and will help her with his in a more thoughtful way when the time is right

In an ideal world I would agree with you, but we don't live in an ideal world. Unfortunately there are some men out there who have poor attitudes to women and we don't know which ones they are.

Clothes send a message out about the person wearing them. People are always going to make judgements and that is inevitable.

Porn use in on the increase and if women go out looking like porn stars it will give the wrong impression to some men.

Your MIL is just an old fashioned misogynist. You have said that she likes to suck the joy/enjoyment out of things that she doesn't approve of.

Do you see her often? I would try and reduce the opportunities that she has to try and instill her sexist/fun-sucking values on your daughter. The dress is lovely btw.

Women aren't responsible for men's behaviour. If you're suggesting what clothes women wear affects whether they're treated badly by men then you're most definitely victim shaming.

Not at all.

Women don't help themselves by using Only Fans or doing pornography.

There is some degree of personal accountability in all this.

If a) I leave my car with the keys in and engine running on the road in winter to "warm it up" and someone steals it or
b) I leave the house to nip to the shops leaving a window open and/or a door unlocked and I get burgled

then in both cases the Insurance Company will: either refuse to pay out or will pay out partially or will pay out and 'load' the next premium, or pay out then decline to insure me any more.
A warning is usually put on the Policy Schedule informing the Insured of the consequences of not taking due care and attention.

Do we know for a fact that woman wearing skimpy clothes are more likely to be attacked. Maybe more likely to be leered at, but actually sexually assaulted?

I agree with you OP but unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world where all men respect women/girls. I only have sons but I would tell a potential daughter that she has the right to dress how she wants but unfortunately some creepy men will react to it so she needs to know how to be strong and deal with that. Not all teens are so I would be wary sending her out in clothing that could be interpreted as sexy.

The reality is that you are both right. Your daughter should be able to wear what she likes but some outfits will draw attention from men.

So, whilst it's not something that I would say to my dd, I would be grateful to MIL for being the one to say it.

So leering’s OK as long as it doesn’t escalate to sexual assault?

Not at all. I'm not the only one making this point on here either. People just have to disagree on this point.

Because I think the analogy below should be more like

If I drive my convertible sports car through a busy high street on a hot day to go to the supermarket, is it more likely to get bitter/envious/appreciative looks than if I drove my old Micra? Probably.

But am I significantly statistically more at risk of getting car jacked in my sports car or the micra? I'm not entirely sure (emphasis on significantly statistically)

And if I do, is it my fault for driving a sports car instead of a micra? Did I deserve it because I shouldn't have driven my convertible sports car to the supermarket, even though I did need to drive some sort of vehicle that day and even if I decided the sports car would be cooler in the hot weather.

I bet if it was a man driving said sports car, he would receive only sympathy from police, insurance and general public.

@BIossomtoes no it's not ok, but it's a part of life- should we all dress specifically not to get leered at? Because I think most of us could cope with that commonplace occurrence, but would do more if the risk of actual physical assault was significant

You much more like your mil than you realise except she’s more of a realist.

@BIossomtoes eh? In what way. That makes no sense to me.

imagine it was a boy saying look at my new bike Granny and she said you'd want to be careful on the roads or you could be injured or worse. There's a time and place. Also skimpy clothes might attract unwanted attention, but harassment or worse will happen solely by the actions of the harasser, your clothes or looks won't influence that. She was a little girl excited about her dress. I'd be really put out.

A friend of mine had lottery win and decided to buy herself a better car.

She went to a dealership and started looking around the vehicles on display, leaving her old beat-up fiesta near the showroom. She wore some old jeans t-shirt and trainers.

Now we all know that sales personnel usually appear within minutes of anyone starting to look around. Not this time they didn't, they just ignored her.
So she left.

The next week she went back dressed in a work suit driving a friends quality borrowed car and timed how long it took for anyone to come out of the office. Less than a minute had passed before a salesman appeared and started fawning around her.

She gave him a piece of her mind about making judgements about people then headed for the next dealership leaving him open-mouthed.

There's moral to this story....

@Shadowfacs I don't follow but if you're saying what I think you're saying then I feel a bit sick in my mouth (apologies if you're not)

WTF I can get it if she was going to be walking around in a bikini (That should be ok but it’s not because of men) but a strappy dress floral from Newlook!?!
What should girls be wearing in summer, surely a strappy dress is standard summer wear?!?!
When I spoke to my step daughter about this topic (she loves showing off her bum cheeks in tiny shorts) I just explained…. You look lovely and you should be able to wear whatever you want but those shorts are going to get you attention that you are to young to deal with. It’s sad though that girls still have to be given this advice.

I can't read your mind but the point was that the dealership employees assumed on her first visit she was hard-up and couldn't afford a nice car because she was driving an "old banger". So they didn't want to waste time trying to sell to her.

When she came back looking like she had a bit of dosh, they couldn't wait to sell her a car.

I'm not sure why this makes you feel nauseous?

Possibly because this has absolutely FA to do with OP's analogy so she drew a conclusion that your point was something more on-topic?

Yes, She sounds delightful.

I read it as, dress in the 'wrong' way, then expect to be treated disrespectfully. Was I wrong?

The point was that some people jump to conclusions based on appearance, which is wholly relevant.

I think OP is overthinking this.

Maybe OP can explain for themselves?

What conclusion would a man jump to based on seeing my daughter in the below dress? That she's desperate for sex without consent? Dear God.