Glorifying double mastectomies - museum exhibition

[BristolW0man]

Artwork on prominent display that glorifies double mastectomies - part of 'Gender Stories' exhibition. This in Bristol's free of charge museum, popular with families and school trips. All funded with the public purse via National Lottery and Arts Council England.

I don't think this should be on display for all to see (different if it's a separate area, but this is in the main hall of the museum) and I certainly don't think public money should be paying for it. AIBU?

https://x.com/JamesEsses/status/1928346229181739240

Good point, you could say people who "mutilate their healthy breasts" to get a breast reduction.

Yeah, I remember there was a documentary about it a while back - she went to Loughborough in it, if I remember rightly? I guess the interesting thing I took from the interview about Renee is that at the time, she didn't care that much because Renee was only one person and they didn't see (much) of a threat from it, although I'd guess that the women who lost out on prize money might not have felt the same way. And she even felt some kind of solidarity with Renee because the press were so lesbophobic towards her. (And still were a long time later - I think it was about 1999 or 2000 when Hingis called Amélie Mauresmo "half a man".) It was only when it's occurring in kids' sports, or when College girls start losing their scholarship to the trans swimmer, or when you suddenly have 6 Renees on a soccer team, that she perceived it as a major issue. I don't think I'm making good sense - I'm not managing to get across exactly what I mean!

Oh ok, so one person said something gross once somewhere far away and that means this exhibition is actively saying bore off mums with cancer. Of course 🙄

You make it sound like trans people are there at fairs with trestle tables and bunting asking people if they want to become trans and handing out flyers.

You've been to some of those events then?

It's absolutely ridiculous isn't it the way these posters are talking about recruitment! Like it's a fucking club you join in half term!

It couldn't be more obvious that it's just the current trendy moral panic like the gays turning your kids gay was in the 80s.

Yes, you’re right. I suppose you can have both exhibitions. I think I know a few people with breast cancer who’ve had mastectomies and it’s so distressing for them. I found an exhibition celebrating mastectomies of healthy breasts as empowering really upsetting. I know people can do all sorts of things to themselves with plastic surgery, and it’s nobody else’s business. I’m finding having two good friends deal with breast cancer very sad, and I think this set me off!!

It's absolutely nothing like that.

If the mastectomy is regretted, breasts can't grow back. It's a permanent change to a healthy, developing body that unfortunately we are already seeing some women look back on with sorrow and regret.

Has any girl, anywhere, ever felt 100% happy and comfortable about their developing breasts? I'd almost exclude myself here, since my double A cup almost flat chest never did that much "developing", but I do remember feeling self-conscious when I first wore a bra and being worried that the boys would ping my bra straps. (They didn't, but one of them did scream to the whole class that I was wearing one.)

You are aware that social contagion has been recognised as being relevant as an issue in youngsters who identify as trans?

I was responding to your claim, not the other poster’s.

Silverbelles · Yesterday 21:32

Of course it is! That's why people who have a problem with transgender people can't just throw a tantrum and expect a whole exhibit to be taken down!

Oh, the irony of that!

The exact same was said about people who were gay in the 80s. Why Section 28 was a thing, can't go letting the kids know about being gay, might make them want to be too, that it's a social contagion 🙄

What about women who "mutilate their healthy breasts" by having a breast reduction or made bigger purely for aesthetic reasons?

Except being gay never was a social contagion.

Were you not around in the 80s?! It was definitely seen as being so. Still is by some.
Or do you mean because that bigotry you don't agree with, they're wrong on that but you're right on this flavour of bigotry?
You don't catch trans, just like you don't catch being gay.

• some of them regret it as they age too (especially breast enlargement)
• those cosmetic surgeries are not paid for by the tax payer
• adults rightly discourage children from those operations, whereas online forums tell girls or their parents these operations are an appropriate course of action for the way they are feeling.

What about them were you thinking?

Being seen as being so and actually being so are very different things. Do you understand the difference?

And yes I was around in the 80s.

Being gay and being trans are totally different. One has to do with your feelings about other people, the other has to do with your feelings about yourself. If you identify as lesbian at 14 and later decide you're actually bi, there's no issue - you haven't done anything which is irreversible. But if you go on puberty blockers and testosterone and get bits chopped off, there's not much space for growth and change.

You don’t catch trans

The studies suggest that just like anorexia or self harm, there is an element of social contagion in trans identities

statsforgender.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/One-study-showed-that-in-36.8-of-trans-identifying-young-peoples-friendship-groups-the-majority-of-members-identified-as-trans.pdf

Well they might well regret it too.

However there is clearly a huge difference between ...

Women who get breast reductions beycase they want smaller breasts and ...

Girls getting their breasts cut off because they have complex mental health problems and/or they're struggling with the changes in their body due to puberty. Mastectomies are not necessarily going to solve these problems. But they are significant and irreversible.

Differences with the (actual) moral panic regarding homosexuality:

1. Studies such as that cited several posts above which support the theory of social contagion within friendship groups.

2. The exponential rise in girls (relative to boys) identifying as trans.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/surge-referral-rates-girls-tavistock-continues-rise/bar-graph-2/

3. The phenomenon of DE-transitioners.

If it's "just like" homophobia of the 80s, I'd be interested to see the equivalents from then:

1. Studies suggesting an statistically significant difference in the numbers identifying as gay/lesbian within existing friendship groups?

2. Studies showing an exponential rise in (one of the sexes) identifying as gay/lesbian.

3. Extensive evidence of a significant minority of individuals perceiving themselves as gay/lesbian, then acknowledging they were mistaken.

And, oh, yes... the obvious one mentioned so often above:

4. Examples of individuals inflicting irreversible physical harm on themselves as fundamentally necessary to their gay/lesbian identity.

The false equivalence of the homophobia of the '80s with the current situation does an injustice to both demographics. Each deserve understanding and consideration. To combine them appropriates the suffering of one (gays/lesbians) in a way that undermines and politicises the suffering of another (the complex phenomenon of trans identities and all those swept up under the "umbrella").

Thinking of this, I could add:

5. What is the gay/lesbian equivalent of the phenomenon of "trans" apparently incorporating and conflating middle-aged cross-dressing males, teenage females & a statistically significant proportion of children on the autistic spectrum?

Any one wanting to answer could use my numbering system above to demonstrate the professed similarity of these two "moral panics". I may not make it back, but other posters may be interested in such responses?

There is a HUGE difference between this and “pro-ana” material. It’s well known that “pro-ana” and “pro-mia” websites are very dangerous for the young girls who use them. But it’s an inadvertent excellent comparison. Do you think a museum should have an exhibition featuring “pro-ana” content? Or would that be not only ill-advised and in bad taste, but be against ethical guidelines?

No because being gay isn't a cult.

What are you on about? No one mentioned pro ana/Mia websites.

Ddakji is claiming no one would make an art exhibition about the lived experience of anorexia. They are wrong. There was the link to prove it.

If the comparison you're trying to make (it's not at all clear) is that you're trying to make out this exhibit is a recruitment drive/glorifying propaganda like others are you are being ridiculous. This exhibition is about the lived experience of transgender people. They're not signing people up FFS.

You're actually claiming being transgender is a cult now?

You're the gift that keeps on giving!