If your head office is in the arse end of nowhere that’s not my problem

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I’m based in London, do a highly specialised job. I’ve been contacted by a recruiter about a new job, and it seems absolutely amazing. There aren’t many people working in this sector yet and I have been at it for 15 years.

The company want someone in the office 2 days a week, but their office is in the arse end of nowhere in Norfolk.

Now I’m happy to go into the office as a when needed. But if you are going to go for presenteeism and require people to be in regardless, AND want to start recruiting for specialised technical roles, having a head office in a small town 30 miles from Norwich and 100 miles from London is a bit fucking stupid.

The recruiter has phoned me twice asking me to reconsider the offer. But they won’t budge on the 2 days a week, and I am not up for uprooting the family.

It’s a shame as I really like the team and the job. But they just seem unrealistic. They can’t find anyone else apparently….but with that office location I am not surprised.

Yeah, this is the issue.

Whenever I was employing in a small company based in a suburb, I had to think about the whole offer to the individual, not just the needs of the company.

We discussed office needs post-covid. All staff but one were happy with fortnightly office days, whilst one preferred weekly. She was a fantastic employee, but her qualification was very common. I had to take the gamble that she wouldn't leave when we reduced our office capacity severely. Luckily our overall package worked for her and her family.

If our core team with niche qualifications had wanted or needed office space, I'd have had to think differently.

Then all this background means it’s just not the job for you. It doesn’t mean the company is somehow wrongheaded for their approach, which may suit other people, and ultimately they probably have no idea that their recruiter has been badgering a candidate who has said they’re not interested in the terms. Just be straight with the recruiter.

YANBU.

Having your head office in a different UK city with good transport links is one thing. Somewhere that's hard to get to is stupid. As is the presenteeism.

There's 'not in London' and '30 miles from Norwich' (the nearest town) though. Obviously companies can base themselves wherever they want, but if they are miles away from anywhere easily commutable, they have only themselves to blame if they can't find anyone to hire for a specialist business.

But ultimately, she doesn't need to - it doesn't sound like the OP was looking for work, rather has been approached by a recruiter. If the company want to have terms that limit the pool of people willing to work for them to only those that live locally, or are willing to spend hours/££ a week commuting then they will need to accept that they might find recruiting challenging. They're competing with companies who have better terms of more flexibility.

How can you possibly know it's 'presenteeism' or not? You don't know the name of the company or even the business area.

It could be that they have perfectly valid reasons to want people in the office at least some of the time. If that doesn't suit the OP that's fine. Nobody has a gun to her head demanding she take up the job.

It’s the fact I’ve turned it down and they keep coming back to me saying they can’t find anyone else, but the 2 days in company policy. The fact they can’t find anyone else isn’t really my problem!! But surely if your company benefits are hampering your recruitment, then you need to look at them.

That's potentially the company's problem, not yours.

Just block their number if their calls are bothering you that much.

Gosh, not in not-London.

Where in Norfolk? You can get the train from London to Norwich just depends on where you need to get to

YANBU. It's great that companies want to base themselves outside major cities. One of the benefits of the move to more remote working is that companies like this can now have access to a much larger talent pool when recruiting. They don't have to just recruit from the local/commutable community - they can have their pick of people from across the UK.

So I just don't get companies who demand people come in for an arbitrary x days a week, just to show their face.

If that's what they want to do, fine. But it restricts their recruitment options.

I can never see myself relocating for a job. It's increasingly common for people to move jobs more often. (I'd say an average 2-3 years for me and my friends as we progressed up the career ladder). Who wants to relocate for work these days? You'd be moving all the time!

I hope you've made it clear why you've turned down the role. It may make them rethink their policy.

But…the OP doesn’t want to uproot her life, but an entire existing business and all its staff should? How’s that going to play out then?

I think it depends what they do, and what their history is. They aren’t going to be unaware that logistically, their location may be a challenge to recruitment, and may have firm reasons for not wanting to budge.

I’m a senior governance specialist currently in insurance, in London, not looking to leave London. I have a long background in my role previously in the social housing sector and have mused on going back, and have had to pass over several opportunities with some of the UK’s largest housing associations for whom having all their staff visible and committed to some office attendance at their offices outside of London is their core offer - and I fully respect that, because it looks pretty shit for your mission to be providing secure housing and investing in deprived communities in Cumbria, or Norfolk, whilst your senior management and Board won’t deign to leave London:

“So, the people who make all the decisions about our homes and communities - where do they hold the meetings and make those decisions?”

“London. They’ve no interest in being in your arse-end-of-nowhere town.”

The company is short sighted. If there is a small pool of candidates who have the necessary skills to carry out the role, that has to be taken into account when negotiating their contract.

We are London based but recruited a very niche role and this individual negotiated one day a week in the office rather then the standard that everyone else has to meet.

I worked for an org like this. Even when we got funding for a post we could never recruit to it. We needed brilliant people in these roles, but they wouldn't come. Guess what we got left with??

The business doesn't have to uproot anything. They can set their terms to allow employees to WFH and attend the office when the business need arises. Or they can keep to their 2 day a week rule and not have the staff they need, up to them.

Haha terms are unreasonable. 'Terms' being the employee goes into their place of work.

If they won't budge they're clearly confident they can fill the position. Perhaps it's OP and others like her that needs the reality check. It's not the prospective candidates that holds the cards.

By her own admission the job is niche and not many equivalent positions, so not much negotating power there. I demand xyz conditions or I'm leaving and going to........hooo woooo

No, I am saying I am happy to go into the office when needed. But typically in my role I would work with colleagues maybe 5-8 hours a week, maximum. And looking at ending up doing more than that in commuting time just seems crazy.

I’d go back with a compromise.

I would love to take the job, it sounds like an excellent opportunity for my career. However 2 days a week in the office for me is untenable. Would XXX consider 2 days a month?

I have this problem but all the jobs ARE in London and as far as I’m concerned London is the last place on earth I’d like to live.

Just the way it is. You say they don’t need you in the office but clearly they feel like they do for whatever reason.

It’s just not the job for you.

Adrian Flux at East Winch which is near Kings Lynn probably

Yes, that will be why they keep calling OP asking her to reconsider, because they have good candidates queuing round the block.

Not your problem, it's just not the job for you. In my industry, satellite hubs outside of London mean the best people can be recruited and retained across the UK, so everyone benefits. Top performers can earn London salaries with a fraction of the living costs, if they choose.

Well we have absolutely no idea what the business does…so it may not be an option to not work on the premises. Or maybe they have found that collaboration etc are better in the office

But if they won’t budge on that then they clearly feel the two days in the office is vital no matter what OP thinks.