If your head office is in the arse end of nowhere that’s not my problem

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I’m based in London, do a highly specialised job. I’ve been contacted by a recruiter about a new job, and it seems absolutely amazing. There aren’t many people working in this sector yet and I have been at it for 15 years.

The company want someone in the office 2 days a week, but their office is in the arse end of nowhere in Norfolk.

Now I’m happy to go into the office as a when needed. But if you are going to go for presenteeism and require people to be in regardless, AND want to start recruiting for specialised technical roles, having a head office in a small town 30 miles from Norwich and 100 miles from London is a bit fucking stupid.

The recruiter has phoned me twice asking me to reconsider the offer. But they won’t budge on the 2 days a week, and I am not up for uprooting the family.

It’s a shame as I really like the team and the job. But they just seem unrealistic. They can’t find anyone else apparently….but with that office location I am not surprised.

Agree with this. I work in a highly specialized technical role in the rural South West. A lot of people are in the office 5 days a week. It doesn't suit all candidates, but plenty of highly skilled people are prepared to relocate here for work.

We try to hold face to face interviews where possible, so people get a chance to come and properly see where we are and whether they could make it work.

in 1960 my Dad got an offer of a technical job in a new-built facility in a small rural city, miles away from anywhere. The pay was good, including a re-location fee. He, and many others, up rooted their family and moved to a new home.

5 years later, his pay had not risen to keep up with inflation, he had a mortgage, 4 small kids in school etc and was effectively trapped, there was no similar roles for miles around.

By 1970 he was on less than 50% than his previous job was then paying.

To his dying day he resented the move and wished he'd never taken the job and felt he'd let himself and, more importantly his family, down.

And, leaving aside other factors and looking at it purely financially, it's much easier to relocate from London because of the house price issue - your rent or mortgage will be cheaper almost anywhere else, significantly cheaper in the 'arse end of nowhere'. If you are a home owner, buying another property in London is likely to be difficult or impossible, and you certainly wouldn't be able to get a property of the same size, which might well rule it out altogether for families who need a minimum number of bedrooms.

Yeah, take the job or don't. Up to her. I'm sure the company will find someone else, even if everyone here seems to think they have 'niche' skills which only they can offer.

This is chicken and egg though, the majority of jobs have traditionally been in cities which has in turn attracted people with the relevant skills to stay/move to these places for work and continued the supply/demand cycle. There will certainly be technical people who live or happy to relocate elsewhere.

Exactly. She thinks it's presenteeism. Their view might differ.

Two days so you arrange to stop overnight surely

Ifailed nails the problem: of course companies can be based wherever they like. But if they’re competing across the UK for talent, they need to bear in mind that candidates will be thinking about their whole career - you wouldn’t want to uproot the entire family if a change of job in five years means uprooting them all over again. So they need to think creatively if they want to attract good people.

That said, my ex-boss lived in Taunton and worked in London for years - he made it work, pre-Covid and hybrid working, by spending two nights a week in a hotel. For two days’ office time, could you spend one night a week in Norfolk and make it work that way? Assuming you otherwise really like the job and they can make it financially worth your while, that is.

The job's obviously not for you, but personally I think needing people in a min of 2 days pw us about much more than presenteeism.

I think companies who don't are setting up big problems for themselves in terms of sucession planning.

If it’s a great role and great pay can you
make it work? Is it worth the travel and disruption? 2 days a week would be one overnight a week, you could alternate which days it is so you can have long stretches at home. If it would benefit your career you’re being a bit narrow minded

Would you take the job if they paid your expenses to travel and stay overnight for the two days per week? If so, ask them. If not, just don’t engage with them anymore. Simple.

Was going to say exactly this. Sounds dreamy to me, London wages, Norfolk prices

Our office is not in London but is just off a town nearish to an M25 junction. I knew this at the time of hiring had a hybrid working. So would go in 2/3 days as needed flexing up and down. (Hour each way)

They have now changed the policy and said you must be present 3 days a week. This has caused an issue as a number of people lived far away since being recruited or maybe moved. We now have a policy in place that a fair few people have had HR to amending for them - it’s caused issues as now some people have to be present for 3 days, some only 2 and some have flexibility. It’s not fair and we are seeing people leaving decent people leaving. Flip side replacements know the rule in place - but it definitely has reduced the applications.

Not sure what the fair and right answer is. But the last three days I’ve spent in meeting rooms as half the people are still WFH and the office is noisy as it’s smaller and full capacity.

Employers who don’t locate their office near good public transport (which doesn’t have to be London) have only got themselves to blame if they make it impossible for staff to get there. We shouldn’t have to have cars to have jobs (unless the job is literally being a driver of any kind who works using their own car.)

She could stay in the Norfolk Travel Tavern.

I hear it's equidistant between London and Norwich. That's the genius of its location.

Lots of the more technical, innovative firms start up in "the arse end of nowhere" as the OP arrogantly put it because that's were the founders lived when they started the firm, and where the majority of the long established workers live.

I once worked in a firm in Ulverston, that would blow the OP's mind because it really is the arse end of nowhere! It was built up from nothing by a couple of engineers who used to work at Vickers in the Barrow shipbuilding industry. These were highly educated/able engineers who were working in their garages and designing new and innovative products for the subsea oil and gas industry, inventing and patenting new products. When the products were proven and they started getting orders, they inevitably recruited other engineers and allied workers from the same "pool" of workers from Vickers and other firms working peripheral to the Barrow shipyards.

Ended up with several hundred workers, all living in the Barrow peninsula.

Of course, it wasn't easy for them to recruit once the time came that they needed expertise that they couldn't find locally, of course they had to offer attractive relocation packages, etc. But they certainly weren't going to relocate hundreds of their existing workforce to a different part of the country just so that they could recruit IT consultants etc who tended to live in London and SE!

I agree to an extent, but in this case the issue seems to be a company insisting on specific terms despite there not being a huge amount of potential candidates. If you’re recruiting for something niche, you might have to be more flexible to get the people you need. Beggars can’t be choosers etc.

What happens if that's the area where the business was started and grown? It's more stupid to relocate away from an area where the staff already live and relocate everyone or make them redundant!

In lots of areas, public transport has got worse over the past few decades, so long established firms may well have had good rail links or good bus services in the past which have steadily and stealthily been removed/eroded over time.

Needing a car to drive to/from work is pretty normal these days for the workers who don't live and work in the larger cities.

I think the issue is lss abou tbeing out of london and more about not making it clear how it could work. Our office is in London but we actively recruit all over the country, but there are lots of options available for people and policies to make things more appealing. eg yes to 2 days in the office, but long distance workers can choose when to come in and book in advance to save money on train tickets, plus they get some suport for the cost of that travel. There also seems to be an informal awareness that for some workers, it might mean they leave a bit early to accomodate the train on the way home or whatever.

My DH had this. Works for companies all around the home counties but was approached by a recruiter for a job in Bristol. He said he'd only consider it if it was a remote position and they seemingly got really offended that he didn't want to work for them and uproot his whole life to move there!

I don't really care where businesses have their headquarters, but they can't expect the employee pool to be nationwide.

That would mean no jobs at all in the vast majority of the country!

Why do Londoners think everything should be in London? I've lived in London - it's shit! Over priced, loads of crime. My previous dingy one bed flat in London is worth the same as my current 5 bedroom house, on the seafront near Edinburgh. Madness!

Badbadbunny "Norfolk isn't a "random little town"

Indeed. It isn't any kind of town, it's a county.

Hope she’s got her own massive plate for the Travel Tavern

Ultimately it's up to them - if they're basically making the role only do-able if you live in Norfolk, and don't want to offer any more flexibility, then they're severely limiting their talent pool. Seems silly but there it is. I wouldn't move for a job, however well paid - my kids are settled in their schools and I like where I live. I originally moved within commuting distance of a major city for this exact reason - I can change jobs without needing to move.