Cancelling day out due to behaviour

[Sunshine1996]

4.5 year old DD has had a huge meltdown this morning. She generally is very easy going however every now and again her temper gets quite out of control at the click of a finger.
She couldn’t find something and looked downstairs and was upset when she couldn’t find it, I found it and called her upstairs. When I showed to her she just went ballistic. Screaming and crying, I tried to speak to her calmly to see what was wrong however she continued to scream and tried to lash out at me. I walked out of her room and left the door open and said I was going to come back when she was ready. There is garland round her bed and she’s completely destroyed it.
My mum is meant to be looking after my youngest and I was due to take DD to the cinema. Shall I cancel the day out or AIBU?

I am all for cancelling treats for bad behaviour but this sounds like it was a little out of her control. I’d have a conversation with her when she is calmer. Ask her why she was so angry and make it clear that it isn’t right to destroy things even when you’re in a temper. Tell her she needs to earn the cinema trip, give her a couple of jobs to do to earn the trip back. So you are rewarding positive behaviour, not the poor behaviour of this morning.

Have a similar age dd and at that age it can be hard for them to regulate their emotions especially if they are tired or have routine changes like over school holidays. I tend to go by how she reacts after a meltdown like this, if she’s sorry and behaves well then we carry on with plans, if she doesn’t listen, isn’t sorry and behaviour doesn’t improve then we cancel plans or go home if out.

I personally think when a child is generally very good (which is what you've said here), when they act relatively out of character, they should be shown some grace. In my experience, there is usually a reason behind things like this if it's not the norm and it's not always immediately apparent. She could be over tired for some reason, or in the beginnings of coming down with something for example.

Either way, if this it's rare for her to behave this way, I'd let her calm down, offer her some comfort, explain destroying her garland wasn't acceptable and that she's not to take her anger out on things and damage them and tell her a better way of being angry. Then I'd draw a line under it and stick to your original plans.

I think a different approach is needed if this became a frequent thing, but even then I think the key thing is to teach and guide on better ways of expressing feelings rather than just punishing, without trying to teach.

I would never punish for a meltdown. She might really benefit from some calm 1:1 time too.

I don't think either of you are going to enjoy a treat out after that floor show. She has hit you and been destructive. That should be an instant loss of privileges.
Talk to her when she is calm and get an apology and tomorrow is another day, but no treats.

I think you need the trip out to reset and move on.
A meltdown is not the same as just being stroppy. Help her talk through her feelings and find her a better way to express when she's so angry and upset.

I wouldn’t, although I’d be upset, I’d try and give her some 1-2-1 time. Have a chat about her behaviour, she might be able to tell you something enlightening about what happened. I would let her know that if she behaves like that again she will lose privileges. I do think children need to be aware of consequences for them to be useful deterrents.

She sounds so over tired or coming down with an illness.
Have a calm day. No screens and left in room without bright light for a rest with her best toys.

If she calms down enough to say a proper sorry, I would take her.
She could also have been over anxious at the thought of the outing.

She wasn't in control, clearly extremely upset. The bigger question is how do you find out what's going on for her and help her moderate her feelings.

I walked out of her room and left the door open and said I was going to come back when she was ready. This might need a different approach.

It could be she needs some time with you away from everyone else. Just some one to one time where maybe you can bring up what happened today.
Have you got the book My Big Shouting Day
By Rebecca Patterson? That’s a good book to read and talk about.

I wouldn’t, it sounds like she’s gotten dysregulated and removing the day out doesn’t teach her anything and it just punishes her. Do I think she should get away with what she’s done? No. But cancelling the cinema doesn’t help anyone. If this were my 5 year old I would be curious about what set this off, I’d be talking through what she felt and what she could do next time, and I’d be asking her to help fix what she’s broken.

Sounds like a great response. What would you suggest? Cuddles and pandering?

I always distinguish between temper and melt down.
One is because they are cross/ not getting their own way.
But a melt down is when they for some reason are just unable to control their emotions and it comes out like a flood. Once that begins, the decision making part of the brain no longer functions, it is flooded by the hormones of distress.

So during melt downs

1. no expectation of a choice or decision. Watching a parent of a child saying - if you do that again you will lose... when a child is in melt down mode is actually really sad. In this moment they CANNOT control themselves to make that choice.
2. they need some help, someone to be with them as the storm passes, or even to help it pass. For some kids that means alone time but for most it means hugs holding, sitting with and very little talking. Remove from situation if necessary, take control if needed, but don't expect meaningful interaction while the storm is still raging.

After the storm has passed, then is the time to explore why, and try and work out what caused the melt down. Then is also the time to think about logical consequences. In this case, the garland is broken, it goes in the bin, it will not be replaced. You hit mummy, mummy is sad, and her arm hurts. You broke xx of your sisters, so we are going to give her yy of yours ot replace it. and so on.

It is also the time to begin to learn that when you feel these big feelings coming, here are some strategies to help.
In my experience, a melt down over eg socks, is never about the socks.
Was she overexcited/nervous about the cinema trip?

I never cancelled trips like this because of melt downs. The value of 1:1 time outweighs the need to make a punishment point.

for 'pandering'. That's a bullshit phrase that belongs in the bin.

When a young child (4.5yo) is struggling to regulate their emotions, walking out can risk making them more overwhelmed.

An alternative is to just sit and wait, giving them time to calm down.

I wouldn’t cancel after one meltdown, however if it continues then i don’t see a problem with doing that, the thing is if you ‘treat’ them after a meltdown it’s like they are being rewarded. My 6 year old went through a spat of meltdowns/being rude etc and cancelling play dates and giving her incredibly boring days instead was the only thing that stopped them! We had tried everything by this stage I must say though!

My experience is if the kick off in the morning they are likely tired and will be hard work throughout the day.

I wouldn't cancel as a punishment but I would reschedule.

There's no point going if you're both going to find it difficult, just do an at home cinema and hot chocolate, popcorn instead.

(1) ‘Right - because you’ve been naughty you are not going to the cinema ‘ - harsh punishment.

(2) ‘I think today you’re obviously finding it hard to stay calm so let let’s have a quiet day at home and do something nice together. We can go out to the cinema another day.’ Probably what she needs and no shame evoked

I’d personally go for 2 !

While I don't agree with the 'pandering' comment, sometimes it's neither desirable nor effective to stay in the room with them when they're in the midst of a proper meltdown. Some children fair better when left to work through their anger (providing they're safe), and some others can really injure bystanders - their presence sometimes escalates the situation further. I've sometimes walked away from my dd calmly and with love. It took me a while to figure out that my continuing presence was a contributing factor in her escalating dysregulation. We have however given her some ideas about how she can more appropriately release her strong emotions (hitting a pillow, squeezing a stress toy or whatever). Obviously this is something they get better at as they get older though.

I'm probably seen as a soft parent tbh but I wouldn't not take a 4 year old to the cinema because they had had a meltdown in the morning. They are so young to be able to regulate their upset and anger, just seems cruel

A four year old's brain is nothing like an adult's brain, it's unrealistic to expect her to be able to manage her emotions independently at this age. I wouldn't count this as deliberate misbehaviour, she probably can't help it. Emotional regulation is a skill that has to be taught through co-regulation.

The only reason I'd cancel the trip is if you thought your dd was too tired/unwell etc. There's no point in punishing a child for something they can't control.

In teacher training we were taught to give a couple of warnings before a sanction, so that the pupil has a chance to change their behaviour. I used this with my own autistic son when he was 6 onwards and it was really helpful. Going straight in with a strong punishment can upset children all the more and is unhelpful in that they don’t have a chance to reflect and change their behaviour. So saying something like, ‘shouting at me is unkind, please use a quiet voice, otherwise you will lose 10 minutes of computer time later, that’s a warning,’ is a lot better than an immediate big punishment which tends to upset all the more. You could start doing this sort of thing longer time. A big punishment is likely to both upset and confuse.

If she’s destroyed the garland around her bed, she’s got an immediate consequence to her behaviour - her room isn’t as nice as it used to be.

I personally give grace when my LO has a melt down (age 3) and accept that he doesn’t yet have the skills to manage his emotions correctly (although he’s learning)

A punishment for having feelings is pointless. You don’t want your DD to learn that she can’t feel anything , and needs to suppress her anger because its unacceptable to few angry/overwhemed.

She needs to learn to communicate her feelings in an appropriate way. Not shouting and screaming, not destroying her things.

I wouldn’t immediate replace the garland, but I’d potentially give her the opportunity to earn it back. Wouldn’t cancel the cinema trip - she sounds like she’d benefit from a nice one on one outing with you.

I wouldn’t punish a meltdown- she is 4 and will struggle to regulate her emotions. If this an occasional issue this needs a conversation when she is more relaxed. To find out what was difficult for her on that day.

Teaching a child to suppress their emotions so that they don’t get punished by parents isn’t a healthy emotional regulation tool. They still feel, they just know they’re not safe to share how they feel.

Not a healthy place to be in for adulthood etc

For one meltdown I might give another chance, but for destroying things in her room I would cancel the day out as she's old enough to understand that. I can't imagine treating my DS to a cinema treat if he'd just trashed his room and lashed out at me.