To give my wife an ultimatum?

[Palakmint]

I can no longer deal with my wife's over sensitivilty, screaming, shouting, meltdowns and general paranoia.

She is very, very sensitive and if she is triggered she will start ranting and shouting, or crying, depending on the situation.

I can only describe her meltdowns akin to a toddler losing their cool - the shouting, the pacing around, the clenched teeth. We have a children and it's getting more and more difficult protect them from seeing this.

The problem is that she refuses to view herself as another other than the victim, for example, years ago she criticised a relative's party to a mural friend, "the food was rubbish, decorative style was outdated etc," the friend as since told our relative and she even asked my wife etc. It's obviously strained the relationship. Recently, she complained that said relative gave her a dirty look and she couldn't understand why. I wanted to say something but decided not to.

Most of the time she is brilliant and the kids adore her but it's difficult to be around her when she gets into one of these moods, and atmosphere in our house is incredibly tense for days.

I want to tell her I'll leave if she has another meltdown. I don't know how realistic it is asking her to control her emotions and i done know if I have the guys to actually follow through but I need to do something.

No one should have to live like this, OP.. You need to protect yourself and your children. She needs therapy / psychiatric treatment and, if she won’t get help, you should go. Wishing you and your children well. Your wife’s behaviour is incredibly damaging.

O God, I hope my husband didn’t write this. I am on a long waiting list for post natal depression support tbf.

If she won't try therapy you may have to split to safeguard your kids.
My dad left once I was off at uni.
You could ask GP for advice.
The frustrating thing is that just sitting down and having a kind discussion about this with her will probably trigger RSD.
You will have to be very clear that you are trying to help her but her behaviour is unacceptable and is pushing you away.

This .

Do you have family support? Parents, siblings etc?

The situations aren't symmetrical though.

An angry, unpredictable wife is nothing like the same threat to her husband as an angry unpredictable husband would be to her husband. Thinking otherwise is naive at best and dangerous at worst.

In the reverse situation people advise to LTB mainly for the safety of the woman. Enough of us have been physically abused or at least fearful of the potential to be concerned about the outcome.

Almost any random man could kill almost any random woman with their bare hands without too much difficulty. The reverse simply isn't the case.

Saying all this doesn't mean that op shouldn't do anything about the situation. If it's already effecting the children (as it sounds like it is) then I would try to get the kids out of the house for a couple of days, maybe to a grandparent and really hash it out with the wife. Maybe the reality that you have removed the children temporarily for safety reasons might hit home. While a sudden ultimatum won't work, I do think you can stress to her that you expect to see some changes and some work or you fear for your relationship and her relationship with the children.

Just like with mental illness, addiction etc, the source of the problem matters less then the effect on the children, if they need protecting them they need protecting, regardless of how sad the story is.

There are steps you can take before issuing an ultimatum. More information is needed before anyone can advise you.

Has your wife always behaved like this?
Or did it happen after a significant event?
EG giving birth, menopause, bereavement, increased work hours, personal stress or relationship difficulties.
Does the shouting & meltdowns only happen at home?
Does anyone else witness them?
Who are the meltdowns directed at? You, the children or herself?
What happens just before a meltdown?
What do you do during the shouting, meltdowns?
How old are your children?

Constantly walking on eggshells is draining & stressful however, depending on the answers to the above questions there is help available for all of you.

Wishing you a positive outcome OP.

Exactly, @Pluvia. Remember the Mumsnet Creed: if a man abuses a woman it's his fault, and if a woman abuses a man it's his fault.

Wha- what about the kids? You surely don’t think they aren’t the ops problem either?

if I thought my partner’s (husband in my case) volatile moods were stressing the entire house I’d never leave without the kids unless I felt seriously personally at risk of violence and 1000% confident he wouldn’t hurt the kids. You can’t leave her because she’s impossible to live with and also just leave the kids with her to live in that environment?? Think of a plan that involves making a safe primary home for the kids that they get to stay at consistently and for a reasonable number of days.

come on this is pretty atypical. You’d first need a woman in a violent rage- statistically much less likely than for a man, and then you’d need a woman able to wrestle her partner to the floor, also statistically much less likely. I’d need a baseball bat to do that while dh could have me on the floor by turning around without seeing me, and that’s a far more typical arrangement, we are both fairly normal size healthy active adults.

I didn't mean he should just dump the kids! If she is abusive, he should leave with them (I know that's easier said than done, but depending on their ages it can be done) I don't see why he should have his life blighted by an abusive partner.

Exactly. Absolute nonsense. I sometimes wonder if people on this site have met many women. They can be just as unpleasant as men.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/traversmark/2024/03/13/a-psychologist-explains-the-need-for-drama-personality-trait/

Some people thrive on chaos and drama. It can be draining to be their partner.

The thing is, it doesn’t magically make everything OK and acceptable if you consider that your mother might have been neurodivergent / had mental health issues. It’s still really fucking shitty to live with.

@Bubblesgun Yes, my DH did the same with me when my anxiety was out of control and it did shock me into getting help.

@Palakmint

First off, your first priority is to protect your children. Her temper IS harming them. As far as I'm concerned, you need to take them and leave and issue any 'ultimatums' later.

Second off, never issue an ultimatum unless you are prepared to carry it out, then and there. And I mean either 'go first, issue later' or bags packed and a place to go immediately after.

Finally, you can't really 'make her' stop doing what she's doing. She has to want to heal herself. Even if your ultimatum sends her to counseling you can't be sure if she's doing it because she realizes she has a problem or just to shut you up and get you back in your box. When that happens, the behaviour returns.

You need to ask yourself how often this is really happening and if this is a true psychological problem. Also, is she willing to do the work she needs to change her behaviour?

I grew up with a mother with NPD, and she was prone to endless criticism, rage, silent treatments, and sudden mood swings. To this day she has the emotional capacity of a four-year-old. She was always the victim, and she made sure we all knew it. She was never, ever in the wrong. The entire household walked on eggshells and revolved around her emotional state at any given moment.

My father was the stable parent. I do believe he was trying his best, but often his best meant not poking the bear, appeasing her at the cost of his children's needs to keep the peace, and turning a blind eye to a lot of her outrageous behavior because confronting her would have only made it worse. We learned from a very young age that Mummy could fly into rages and not be held accountable, and that when she wanted to be nice, we should all just be relieved. We learned that listening to Mummy show no tolerance for others (including us) was normal, and that dinner conversation was usually her viciously gossiping about anyone and everyone. We learned to silence ourselves to protect ourselves. We learned that love was conditional and we should try to be perfect at all times to not give Mummy reason to snap.

My entire childhood was spent in knots. The longer my parents stayed married, the more desperate my father came to just keep the peace, and eventually he started living in a world of deep denial, because he spent decades being her publicist, essentially, and defending her actions, or at least, rationalizing or dismissing them.

As adults, none of my parents' children speak to them, and I hold my father deeply responsible for not better protecting us from this kind of environment. I see him as a spineless coward who couldn't stand up for himself but more unforgivably, chose not to stand up for his children. I could spend hours telling you the damage that this all did to us kids.

There is damage being done to your children that may not be noticeable or even understood by them yet but will likely impact their self-esteem and future relationships.

I urge you to do what I wish my father had the courage to do, and what I actually begged him to do by the time I was a teenager: Take your children and leave your wife. If you have documented her behavior and you say she has refused to get help, then this will likely work in favor with custody.

As a parent, you need to protect your kids--and their future selves.

I voted YABU because
1- if you give your wife an ultimatum, your marriage is dead, regardless of whether she can stop her moods as you say
2- you dint seem to have ever told her how unacceptable you’re finding it. But rather youve accommodated and tiptoed around her.
3- whilst I fully agree the way she behaves isn’t on, you seem to think she can completely control it. Can she?? Did you ever talk about her having counselling/therapy? Did you ever wonder what could be your part in it? (Eg being passive or avoidant but still expecting her to just know)
4- you’re talking about protecting the dcs but not one word about you having the dcs at least 50/50 if or rather when you separate. Just you leaving

Tbh rather than creating a situation where you can blame her and absolve yourself, just leave her. You dint seem to be able to communicate well either (silent or ultimatum to force your way). And you dint seem ready to do the work needed there too.

I didn't say it made everything okay. It was a shitty way to live.
It's only as an adult I've been able to see what may have been the cause. I've found this helpful in trying to come to terms with the events of my childhood.
It's only my experience but it's as valid as anyone else's.

What do you want to achieve here?

An ultimatum will suggest that there's a lot at stake, but only if you're willing to follow through.

I find it hard to believe you haven't already tackled your wife about this, and she hasn't changed, or done any work to help herself. I'm diagnosed autistic. I suffered for years with PMDD. I also have a background of significant trauma. But I still showed up for myself, my husband and my kids. If she's unwilling to do this, and it is a matter of will and effort, then nothing's going to get any better. You can't do all the emotional labour. However, you do need to do your own emotional labour. Go to a therapist, life coach, whatever you're comfortable with, and talk about how you can navigate the change you want to see <<< You can only control your own behaviour, not that of your wife.

Is it linked to her cycles?

Could it be pmdd? This will only be the case if she is much calmer, like a different person for at least half the month

Could be Histrionic Personality Disorder or she’s simply been a spoilt child and allowed to get away with having tantrums if she doesn’t get her own way and it’s continued into adulthood.

Film her and play it back up her when she’s calm and tell her that if she continues you will seek legal advice about getting custody as you don’t want your children being raised by a screaming banshee.

Btw what you’re describing is making think autistic meltdowns too.
So something she is going to struggle to control unless she is also given the accomodation she needs to self regulate.

Im not going to diagnose her.
But ask yourself, if you’re leaving her because of her meltdowns (your words), are you comfortable doing so if they’re autistic meltdowns?

fwiw, dh is autistic and I’ve had to have long hard looks about my marriage. What I’ve learnt is:
You have to look at your own behaviour if you really want change in your marriage, even you think it’s all his/her fault. Eg being able to put boundaries in place
You have to accommodate for disability
You need to stop using shame and finger pointing.

I have voted YABU because I think giving an ultimatum is unhelpful. Also if she is so extreme on how she reacts it's unreasonable to expect her to go to virtually no reaction - what you should ask for is incremental improvement over time.

How old is she? Just wondering if menopause is playing a part in this.

Sounds like counselling might be helpful to her

@MyHouseInThePrairie Why would their marriage be dead if he says that she needs to. get help to change her behavior? My marriage didn’t die when my DH said that to me, it pushed me into getting the help that I needed and has resulted in me becoming a far happier person with a far better relationship.

Telling someone that you still love them, but they need to address their damaging behavior doesn’t end a relationship. You’re asking them to address one issue, because you want to save the relationship.