If your child gets a detention at school, do you punish at home too?

[comeandhaveteawithme]

Just that, really?

My DH says no, detention is enough, but it's clearly not because he keeps getting them for stupid things.

If he didn't learn anything from detention, by getting it again then I think he should be punished at home too.

There's no way to know what issues would occur from any education system overall though. There's always divides in society. There's certainly huge educational divides too. I'm not proposing that we stop education. It should be overhauled and, incentivised. I think you'll find if we remove foricing people to learn, in the way WE want them to...many may more inclined to want to learn, in a way that works for them.

But forcing children to be in a faceless, clinical establishments where often they are put at risk, day in and day out ..it's just not good for anyone. Well, anyone but a government intent on churning out compliant factory workers I suppose.

You suggested a system where classes would be optional for all ages, how do you think that would play out other than one group getting educated and another not? Far too many would choose to opt out.

Making schools better so less children are distressed by them is good, making school optional for them is not. It is writing them off.

Two key things for me

• you have control of the homework situation. He shouldn't be failing to turn it in under any circumstances. If you choose to let thst slide then the detention is enough (although IMO you shouldn't be allowing that)

• 5 lots of passing about for 1 detention and multiple detentions speaks volumes as to his general behaviour at school being below standard.

Would his behaviour at home be triggering signatires/detention? If not, then he is actively choosing to behave worse at school.

So yes, based on patterns of behaviour he would be held accountable at home as well to ensure changes at school.

Detentions aren't working and I wouldn't be complacent to shrug my shoulders and let him piss away his future because it isn't on my watch.

He'd be required to be detention free for devices or going out with friends.

Making them good is not enough though. A guilded cage is still a cage. Some people may be happy to enjoy them comfortably (IF they were so), others would prefer their freedom, we shouldn't get to force children into cages.

I'm suggesting many and varied classes should be optional for all ages, yes. I'd propose that exams could be taken in stages as and when the child or even, adult is ready too. Individually. Therefore, distinctly less horrible exam stresses.

And perhaps a system of community based learning whereby the elderly can come out of retirement to teach skills. Therefore aldo reducing the loneliness epidemic amongst the elderly.

There are just suggestions, I'm not here to say I can propose magical, problem free alternatives. I'm simply saying we need to change what we have now.

The current system...is a prison for children and it isn't ok and we should look into alternatives because no child should be forced into staying in an environment that they hate for a vast portion of their life. Let alone when it is unsafe. And arguably, designed to strip them off their individuality in favour of cohesive subservience.

If you make education optional a significant proportion will opt out, what do you propose society does with them? They won't be able to work anything beyond the most basic of manual labour jobs and those are increasingly less available. We'd have masses of unemployable people.

That's a possibility. Absolutely.

I would counter argue that if you make it optional it gives them - options.

Anyone will tell you, kids LOVE to learn. They love to ask questions and explore. But 'you have to' makes it a chore, takes the fun out, and naturally no one likes that and they rebel.

No one wants to learn with a gun to their head.

The schooling system just isn't fit for it's purpose for many children. How can people get expected to learn in a place that makes them feel forced or unsafe, for example?

Look at the rates of reading comprehension dropping these days. The system doesn't even work.

And IF kids they opt out when they are young, they may opt in at a later point. They could train at any point in life that suits them. Rather than scoffing at 17 year olds who fail exams and can't go to uni. Perhaps they take a class at 15 and that's one grade and another at 19 and there's another. Whatever works for them.

There are theoretically masses of 'manual jobs' going. That's why we've had to increase immigration. Not to mention the arts and various entrepreneurial possibilities. Plenty of people can't do high brow jobs already....does that mean their lives have no value? That they have nothing to contribute? Just because they didn't pass classes as kids?

The point is radical change always creates new issues to solve. That doesn't mean it isn't necessary.

But I'll bow out now as we're derailing the thread a bit. And clearly I can bang on about this subject indefinitely xD

If they opt out early enough they really won't be able to do many jobs, literacy and numeracy are required in pretty much every job. They would have their options curtailed so much its cruel - a child can't make that kind of choice, adults needs to make such important choices for them.

Yes I did mention that the basics were vital. But beyond that...not so much. And there nothing to say they have to be learned in the same system we use now.

Between the ages of 7 and 14 for example, I can't think of one thing I learned in school that was useful (and the only reason the 14 plus stuff was 'useful' is that we've deemed It to be necessary to take exams that determine our future based on info learned at that age).

It did however, steal from me, my passion for art...my safety, consistently, and the last day on earth with a relative. I enjured assault, continual sleep deprivation and being made to feel like I didn't even have the right to advocate for my own safety. Which had many ongoing implications in my adult life.

I am not a rarity. And in many ways, the system now is worse.

And you are right, some important choices do need to be made by our guardians. But they are no longer given that option. There was a lad stabbed to death in school not that long ago who knew it was coming but, the school demanded he not miss anymore classes. Parents don't have the say anymore.

They can't even take their kids on holiday without repocussions.

That is a problem with the UK system, that its so forceful, there are other ways. I'm not in the UK, there's a boy in my DD's school that refuses to attend most of the time. There's no threats to his parents, no fines, instead he has a social worker, trying to get him back in school. In the meantime he doesn't progress because he's missed too much school to pass the year so they keep him back (next year will be his 3rd time in 8th grade) so he doesn't miss out on his opportunity for education (though I don't know what will happen once he turns 18)

But there is so much they learn between 7 and 14, my DD is 14 and she has learnt so much, things she couldn't learn just from reading about them.

I am sorry you had such a bad experience in school, that does explain your view, but it doesn't have to be like that, schools can be safer and more pleasant and more flexible (i can take my children out of school for holidays, just have to ask for permission and never heard of it being denied)

English system to be fair, quite different in Scotland.

True, it is different in Scotland.