Winter fuel payments

[dearydeary]

I have just heard on the news that this is being discussed again and they are considering reinstating them.

While I think that people who are on a lower income (pension credit for example) may need additional help I do not think this should be a universal benefit any more.

It appears the government is still looking for votes. What about everyone else in society? Younger people at universities or just starting out? Individuals with disabilities?

Surely we need to be moving to a more means tested approach as the finances need rebalancing?

Where pensioner need help, I am happy to support but many older folk have benefited from good pensions, valuable house price increases and a stable employment market. This is not the situation for many of us any more.

Have I lost the plot?

The point is, they're pensioners, but they absolutely do not need that money, like a hell of a lot of pensioners... they're quite wealthy!

My mum still gets it because she's on Pension credit

giving it out to everyone is madness.

A lot won't bother with the form filling, we never bothered with the child tax credits when DS was young as it was the basic amount and quite onerous to claim

because would you opt out of free money ...?

I’ve never understood this either. Everything should be linked to someone’s NI number. Should be easy enough to automate? And surely pretty straight forward code to write to automate that as well?

There would probably be a bit of a lag in the figures used to compare for the means testing but i don’t think that should be a barrier to means testing.

Apparently plenty would

I think an opt-in system would work. A simple declaration to sign to state that your income is below x amount and you’ll be prosecuted if you’re lying. Of course some people would claim it anyway but it would sort most of the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

Don't agree about bus passes. We need to do what we can to encourage older people out of their cars. There's far too many people who should have given up driving who still do it to keep their independence, risking everyone's safety as it is. Take away the bus passes and that would just get worse.
I agree with the removal of the WFA though 100%

Anedina · Today 09:15

"I thought it was £300 per household over 80 and £200 per household under 80"

It was.

Re opting out. My dh used to get the wfp but tbh we didn’t need it. Never refused it though.
We’re not massively wealthy, we are careful with using gas and electricity (as we all should. Being wasteful is bad for the environment), but we’re not cold or going without food/clothing. We don’t need it.

I’m 60 if it helps.
Absolutely nothing to do with ageism.
Everything to do with the economic health of the country.

I’m a pensioner and agree it should be means tested. Also the bus passes and free prescriptions should be means tested in my opinion.
However the assumptions you are making are ridiculous, we are not all paying big vet bills, driving huge cars, spending it on holidays, adding it to our investments etc as has been mentioned on this thread. We are “ ordinary” people with a state pension, maybe a small workplace pension ( although not always as women didn’t all work outside of the home in the 70’s 80’s) So an income of about £16000 a year.
Im fortunate to have finished paying off my mortgage just before I retired so not having to find a big chunk for housing costs.
We gave ours to our local children as did many of my pensioner friends who didn’t need to use it for their fuel bills. I’ve since found out you could actually have declined it.
The pensioners who will suffer if it’s means tested are those just above the cut off point - whatever that will be decided at- just like families just above the cut off point for additional benefits.

A lot of sweeping generalisations about pensioners and their wealth on this thread

Reinstating the Christmas Sherry Fund? I guess there must have been some hard lobbying from the drinks manufacturers.

We need to encourage all age groups out of their cars.

Look at official sources.
The ONS, for example.

Oh goody, another ageist thread.

What is ageist?

Look at official sources. The ONS, for example.

Ageist obviously

For what?

Yes. I’ve been on Mumsnet for over 15 years. The ageist comments and MIL bashing get worse on here. It’s not a good look for a platform that represents women.

I agree with this. Everyone would benefit. My dh and I are pensioners and are just managing atm. We don't have holidays but do have an occasional day out but I am financially dreading the day one of us dies as the outgoings will remain more or less the same but the income will reduce by half. We have miniscule private pensions, mine is £56 month dh is £140. Just the way it worked with our jobs, so we will be just over the threshold for help but struggling to survive. But that's ok because we're just pensioners.
Actually I only agree with the first paragraph. I hadn't seen you think we're the wealthiest generation in history, if only.

Here are the stats from Joseph Rowntree Foundation: https://www.jrf.org.uk/uk-poverty-2024-the-essential-guide-to-understanding-poverty-in-the-uk

16% of pensioners live in poverty compared to 20% of working age people & 30% of children.
So, yes whilst there are many pensioners living in poverty, it’s not as many as everyone else.

I completely agree. The pensioners these days have it easer than any generation imo.

They benefited from more readily available housing, particularly council housing then they could buy it. which messier it up for the next generations… not their fault but they absolutely benefited.

If they were buying their own house that was much easier as they were significantly cheaper than what they are now.

The supply and demand for housing made it much easier to find a house compared to now where you have to bid and fight to even get a rental view and then you still might need a guarantor… to rent! 25 years ago it was easier to rent and I started out then so know from experience

My mam used to get GP appointment on the day no bother. I remember years ago you were almost guaranteed an appointment on the day, now no chance.

My man even got a boob job on the NHS years ago. No way would that happen now and quite right! She didn’t have cancer, she just didn’t like the way they were after birth. You can’t even get an emergency appointment now!

There were better benefits and perks at work and double pay for bank holidays/weekends, now it’s expected. Everything is open 24/7 which means staff have to work.

University was free

Women could retire at 60!

Our generation will be lucky if the state pension exists in 30 years time…

There are just a few things that spring to mind. Life is harder now than it was for my parents generation.

The most poor pensioners are still eligible.

My MIL worked as a part time admin assistant for years, was able to buy her council house, then retired at 60 and now lives comfortably. If I believed everything I read, I would assume that my MIL is penny less but she’s got thousands in savings. How can that be? It’s because she’s been careful with her money. Yet my own dad moans and groans he hasn’t got enough money and he’s not entitled as he’s just over the threshold, but he used to buy top of the range cars and all the gadgets so from what I can see, we all need to budget accordingly.

Perhaps the threshold should be increased but no way should all pensioners be eligible, just by virtue of age.

They should have brought it in with more consideration in the first place. Living on less than £11,013 at the time this policy was instated, a year state pension must be awful. Especially as you know those on just a few pounds less than you will get WFA, pay no council tax, and get free dentistry too. The Labour government thought it would gain votes if they cut WFA from pensioners but it backfired and many people were disgusted with the policy. Labour MP's said the WFA cut and proposed disability cuts were all that people complained about on doorstops, and not just elderly people. That's why they are reconsidering it. What they should have done is say anyone with less than £20k a year to live on which is over £5k less than the minimum wage. This would mean the wealthy would not get it but those who get state pension plus a small work pension would get it. Rachel from accounts is very incompetent and incapable of considering the likely long term consequences. KS should have said no to her. Nigel has said he will restore WFA for pensioners. Just wait until disability payments are cut, Labour will be even more hated.

That’s different because there’s only a cost with the bus pass for journeys taken. I’ve used mine less than ten times in seven years. WFA should definitely be means tested but the threshold is too low,