You scumbag You maggot you cheap lousy…

[TeaAndToast8]

My second AIBU Of the night, husbands being very argumentative! Anyway, I’ve screenshot two examples of what the Kirsty MacColl might have meant in Fairy Tale of NewYork. Who is correct.. My opinion is the description underlined in red and my husband’s is blue.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0895769X.2022.2029692?scroll=top&needAccess=true

There you go.

It's been mentioned by lots of others, none of whom have provided any sort of source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(unit)
https://www.onelook.com/?w=faggot

I posted a link for you.

OK. I'm still not convinced that most of the people claiming "oh that was a common meaning" ever heard it used, but have just seen someone saying it on Facebook in this context and are just looking for a reason to excuse using it now. I've never seen it or heard it used like that on tv, in a film, in a book or in reality so I doubt it was common.

Why so rude and bigoted? No need to spread hatred. Have enough of that about. Also faggot has been used here as an insult for at least 40 years as it was offensive when I was a kid. We didn’t remove every word from the dictionary back then, but if was offensive. And you know Americans came from here right? So I don’t think it’s “our word” any more than “their word”.

Yes, that's what I thought it was.

That's a bundle of sticks. Not a insulting term for a lazy person. What on earth was that supposed to prove?

I'm not denying it's seen as a slur now by many/most.

But that's not how it was used commonly when I was growing up in Northern England/Scotland round about the time the song was written.

No it's an Anglo-Irish song, using Anglo-Irish dialect. In regard to america (the white settler entity not the continental landmass) you are referring to the location where the song is set in, and even then some of it is fictional (the "NYPD choir" doesn't exist for example).

Yes it's that too.

What unprofessional dictionary have you looked that up on??

Correct. It has nothing to do with the racist white setter entity bar window dressing. The song is Anglo-Irish, using McGowan's dialect.

Can’t cigarettes be called fags?! Didn’t realise that’s now offensive.

It’s not.

Calling a person a fag is offensive.

Calling a cigarette a fag is not offensive. Cigarettes don’t have feelings.

As soon as someone tells me a word is offensive then I immediately stop using it, even if it was something as innocuous as the word teapot. I don't use the word teapot in everyday language so that wouldn't be a great loss to my vocabulary.

My mum smokes 20 a day and has done since she was 11 years old, she also has early stages of dementia - no excuses, just facts. She has gay friends and they are not offended because of context. I wouldn't expect a stranger to see it like this though.

I am aware that it is a derogatory word and only use it when referring to the food product but thinking about it, I don't remember hearing anyone (other than Americans) using it as such. I have heard plenty of people using offensive names when talking about gay men but never that one.

Are you talking to me?

Taylor and Francis is a very highly regarded, reputable international publisher used by specialists.

Shane was educated at Westminster School in the late 60s early 70s and the word in those circles was very much used as a general slur, like homophobic slurs were generally used by just saying 'you're gay' in an insulting way. Even in the late 80s when the song was written it was a slur and it was definitely written as one. Shane used to come into the HiBi in Nenagh often, before he died, when I worked in Nenagh and if ever asked would always say he wouldn't use the word now and didn't intend to offend anyone and if they wanted to change it our over play it with another word he had no problem with that. It didn't reflrct his views at all. Its a drunken argument between two alcoholics who use offensive slurs in their argument. That's actually the point of using the word. Attempts to sanitise it or reinvent what was or is, meant in the lyrics are just not accurate.
Plenty of his songs contain challenging or perceived offensive ideas or words. Try listening to the songs on Rum Sodomy and the Lash album. Old man Drag about underage male prostitution, for example, or Billy bones about shooting Arabs and Israelis running like Shiit Muslims.
If you want to find offence in what they wrote there's plenty of examples but in FToNY it wasn't about lazy people, sticks or meat balls.

"it tells is an unreal fantasy of 1940s New York dreamed up in 1980s London."

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/dec/06/fairytale-new-york-pogues-christmas-anthem

As I said, the song is Anglo-Irish (McGowan's identity). The only thing "american" is naming some locations.

I’m Irish, older relatives used say it affectionately but exasperatedly about children. Like you cheeky brat.

Was just coming in to say exactly this, generally something like 'ya little faggit' not meant with any current slur or connotation.

American English is so prevalent in language online, so it seeps in everywhere - sometimes without even being aware of it - i didn't realise that semetry was American English and graveyard was British English.

The word woke gets used a lot online, often in the wrong context and it's original meaning is long gone.

You are not the centre of the world though.Just because you have never heard it used this way, does not mean everybody else is wrong.

It's the homeopathy theory of language.

Like, lungs have spots, and some plants have similar spots, so the plant and the lungs must be somehow related and have sympathy for each other and be related.