You scumbag You maggot you cheap lousy…

[TeaAndToast8]

My second AIBU Of the night, husbands being very argumentative! Anyway, I’ve screenshot two examples of what the Kirsty MacColl might have meant in Fairy Tale of NewYork. Who is correct.. My opinion is the description underlined in red and my husband’s is blue.

Faggot/ Faggotti are music wind instruments also known as Bassoon.

I don't think it's American at all besides mentioning NYC- I have played it for many Americans and they don't know the song at all and are surprised to find out its a Christmas song!

Or Scotland - England doesn’t have full control of the language !!!

I literally had Brains Faggots a couple of weeks ago, they're not as delicious as I remember but they were £1.19 for about 8 so that makes sense .

I wince when my mum calls cigarettes fags, but she is old and it's not a ditch I'm willing to die in trying to get her to change her language at this late stage.

The song may be about New York, but it’s an Irish song, not American. It was written in the 1980s.

I like these alternative lyrics!
Not to derail but does anyone know why The Police sang about (Sue Sue) Sue Lawley?

This. In my childhood (I’m 65) ‘you lazy faggot,’ was a commonplace expression, not offensive or linked to sexuality at all.

Incidentally - and irrelevantly - it's also the origin of the term fascism.The Italian term fascismo is derived from fascio, meaning 'bundle of sticks', ultimately from the Latin word fasces. This was a symbol of 'Strength through Unity' going back to Roman Times.

It was written in England by an Englishman tbf so it could easily mean lazy.

It's also a food with peas or a bundle of sticks. The original definitions existed for hundreds of years before it became a slur to some.

😂

Save time this Christmas by getting the debate out of the way early this year?

In what way is it an American song?

The Pogues were British and Irish, the song was written by two members of The Pogues, and Kirsty MacColl was British.

ETA - I actually agree that any original meaning is irrelevant to how offensive it is now. But it’s not an American song.

Problem is with this topic. Everyone knows its now used as a gay slur and that's it's now offensive. Irrelevant to whatever it meant many moons ago.

However people will obviously rush to thread with every other meaning under the sun. Just to be obtuse. 🤷🏼‍♀️ Just to deny its now considered offensive.

So the argument will never end.

I used to buy faggots from the butchers tasty meal. Brains faggots haven't changed their packaging yet.

That was a long time ago though. Its been considered offensive for many years not its not recent

It's English.

I’m not convinced that the word fag as slang for cigarettes has anything to do with the slur for gay men. Why would it ? If anything it’s a stick you burn.

It does and you know it.

How?

Using it to mean a cigarette long pre-dates any use as an offensive term.

I wouldn’t use it now. But it was used for cigarettes first.

It's certainly got an Irish vibe but Jem is English, Sean was born in Kent, Kirsty was English and it was written and produced (another Englishman) in England.

It's an Irish/American song as in it's about Irish immigrants in America.

Therefore when Kirsty McCall was calling Shane McGowan a faggot, she was doing it as an 'Irish woman living in America'.

It's one of the main reasons opinion is split.

And of course the writers very much knew what it means in America, regardless of what it meant in Ireland.

Do they still have fags at Eton? America swoons in horror.

It's funny people usually mention that and not the "Old s-ut on junk"-which meaning was it? Lazy housewife, or the other? Either, it's strange that people seldom mention that it's sexist as the term is seldom used about men.

Whut? Are we not allowed to call cigarettes fags any more?

Well unless you've lived with your head buried in the sand its also been used as a slur towards gay men in our community. A very nasty one.

But there's no convincing some people. Unless they've experienced it, they'll never appreciate how hurtful it can be