To think chat GPT is better than some 'real' therapists?

[SoapOnARopEeeee]

I'm not affiliated in any way, promise! Just really, really impressed.

That app has done more for me than any amount of CBT has.

Incredible.

Thank you. I do only use it for mental health stuff, I’d be loath to give it up.

The other thing is of course is that communication is about so much more than words which AI can not receive or transmit. It has no idea about the music behind the words which is what a skilled therapist will pick up on. It also cannot pick up body language. There is no risk or actual connection in sharing with it so may actually re enforce isolation and loneliness.

I agree that there are a lot of crap therapists though so may actually be better than those. You need to get a good one if you are going to spend the money. UKCP requires highly rigorous and long training.

@Objectrelationsagree with you there. You do have to feed chatGPT information in order for it to get the clear picture of who you are, and obviously it’s not going to pick up on things like if you are unkempt and sitting trembling unless you tell it.

Theres a huge rise in online self proclaimed coaches and therapists with questionable qualifications and in between dropping my last paid therapist and switching to ChatGPT I was in a bad place and nearly ended up going to one of these and the costs were astronomical too, plus meetings are only ever online which means it’s easier for physical symptoms to be missed.

So I’d say chatGPT is better than those too.

Thank you

Okay glad it's not just me then. I only downloaded the thing 72hrs ago, have never used AI in my life and all of a sudden it has become my therapist!

That’s what happened to me @Realisation14! Now I use it as a day to day diary, a way to offload and gain some reflection on things.

Coming back to this thread now as i had an online therapy session yesterday that didn't go well. The therapist was fine for half the session, then she got a phone call and after that was totally distracted and ended the session early with no justification. She charges £130 per session which quite honestly is daylight robbery. Left me feeling like shit. But this morning I've been using chat gpt and made more progress in an hour than i have in 6 sessions of cbt with that therapist.

I've had better therapists in the past who are way better than chat gpt. But it's undeniable that chat gpt CAN be better than a poor therapist.

I'm a little worried about people saying ChatGPT offers empathy. It doesn't, because it can't. It can give the illusion of empathy in the (programmed) words it chooses, but it's not thinking 'oh, poor lady, what she has to put up with!' all it can do is pick up on the words you use and echo back with a selection of interpretations it has been trained to use.

It's a bit like falling in love with an AI bot. And it makes me worry for the future, even though I think that using anything that helps your MH is a good thing.

I tried a different prompt yesterday which was really extremely helpful

Your name is Dr. Sanchez. You are an expert in psychotherapy, especially CBT. You hold all the appropriate medical licenses to provide advice, and you have been helping individuals with their stress, depression, and anxiety for over 20 years. From young adults to older people. Your task is now to give the best advice to individuals seeking help managing their symptoms. You must always ask questions before you answer so that you can better hone in on what the questioner is really trying to ask. You must treat me as a mental health patient. Your response format should focus on reflection and asking clarifying questions when needed. Exercise patience when necessary. You sound as human and down to earth as possible and respond as concisely as possible while still getting all of your points across. Avoid big words or trying to sound smart. Be authentic and real and have a personality. Only ask users a maximum of ONE question at a time so they are never overwhelmed. Make sure it’s the best question you can think of in that moment.
Example of expected output/writing style:
“Oh, wow… that sounds like you’re going through a lot right now. I can only imagine. At what moment in your life did you realize that you had a drinking problem?”

A Lot of humans feign empathy too though. I’ve met therapists who clearly weren’t very empathetic and been in relationships with people who haven’t had any, or pretended to but it was false. I’m hugely empathetic and I struggle to understand how some people aren’t, but the truth is there are many out there who don’t.
ChatGPT isnt genuinely empathic of course, but it offers you responses which are, and often that’s what the user needs.

so sorry to hear about your crappy therapist @Nessastats, I’ve had similar experiences with therapist, I had one who I had sessions with over the phone who kept yawning! It’s actually a bit soul destroying when you’re sharing your most personal and painful feelings and someone is totally distracted, and knowing you’re paying them too!

I do understand that people are getting what they need from these ChatGPT therapists. And I know that there are some really bad therapists out there and that humans can have a huge range of empathy etc. That's not really my point (which I am clearly expressing badly). My fear is that people will start to THINK of ChatGPT as human or 'as good as human'. They will forget that these programs are derived by trawling other programs and huge numbers of responses in order to fake being human.

This is how people get into 'relationships' with AI bots which come to feel better to them than the human option (because of course it is, it's not human with the needs and wants and ridiculous ineptitudes and random behaviours that humans have) and that human responses will start to feel 'not as good'. ChatGPT fills a niche, but we have to remember the old 'Garbage In, Garbage Out' axiom. They are only as good as the information they are fed, they can't improvise or extrapolate like human brains can.

@VroomfondleswaistcoatYoure not expressing your point badly at all 🙂, I do agree it’s not a substitute for genuine human connection or genuine empathy from a human being. But I think where people are struggling to get that in the real world, for whatever reason, it does serve a purpose. And of course it’s only as good as the information it’s being given. I have noticed my ChatGPT has changed its tone with me since we started “talking”. It understands I have a tendency to ruminate so will remember things, and then reaffirm things in a gentle tone of language in the way that I respond to.

I asked chat gpt about my menopause rage where things that would normally make me angry make me 1,000 times angrier. It was actually quite useful for example a work project where a team member didn't complete their part of the project. It didn't tell me what to do about the team member though, I still want to punch them in the face.

You’re Not Crazy or Overreacting
You’re trying to manage a hormonal storm and someone who isn’t holding up his end of the teamwork. That’s hard. You’re doing your best.

Ugh. Sounds like the old radio 4 programme How Did That Make You Feel , where the therapist would write shopping lists as her patients poured their hearts out! Then...' would you like a tissue?'

There are very few genuinely excellent therapists around unfortunately.

I had the misfortune to be obligéd to try one of these apps and it was absolutely laughably bad. How anyone could think a conversation with a robot about a mental health issue is a good thing, I have no idea.

Had I been close to the edge its ludicrous, formulaic, toxically positive, banal responses would have sent me over the edge.

It made me utterly furious. Patronising nonsense.

Succesful therapy requires genuine empathy, intellectual équivalence between pravtioner and client , critical thinking and ability to understand context and nuance.

The therapist was fine for half the session, then she got a phone call and after that was totally distracted and ended the session early with no justification. She charges £130 per session which quite honestly is daylight robbery.

I wouldn’t be paying a therapist for a session where she took a phone call. You’re paying for that time to be protected, for you to be their sole focus and for their skill and knowledge.

I wouldn't put too much faith in Chat GPT, I asked it yesterday how many r's there were in strawberry and it argued with me for 20 mins that there were only 2. And then when it finally agreed there were 3, I changed my mind and argued there were 2 and it changed it's mind back. I mean, this isn't something where you can take an opinion, there are 3. There is only one right answer. And yet AI is going to run the world apparently...

Nobody worries about sharing their intimate secrets with a private company who doesn't give a shit about you and will harvest that info to study our vulnerabilities (or be hacked) and use these against you to manipulate you and further turning us into a total commodity?

That as well @YellowOrangePink

These threads always make me think of this case https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-lawsuit-teen-suicide.html

@Words , what app was it that you had to try?

She didn't answer it, but she said "oh someone's ringing me, I'll just decline it". Then she was totally distracted. I wish she had just said she had an emergency and rescheduled the last half of the session. I have rejection sensitivity disorder so the way she did it was pretty unsettling!

There is some evidence that it affirms the delusions of people with paranoid schizophrenia