To think chat GPT is better than some 'real' therapists?

[SoapOnARopEeeee]

I'm not affiliated in any way, promise! Just really, really impressed.

That app has done more for me than any amount of CBT has.

Incredible.

That sounds lovely. Will the hoovering of said brain hurt?

Sorry, I had to laugh a little at your comment. It's something my Nana would have said to the thought of anything remotely AI - like.

Isn’t this what many therapists do though.

I don’t think therapists should be replaced but AI uses all of the same tools as therapists use.

Its not perfect and makes mistakes but so would a human individual.

Getting lots of information/use tools from lots of different professionals is going to give you a much more accurate answer than 1 individual, who only has their own training and experience to go on.

There are lots of telephone helplines or online chats for people struggling.

I think if people find in person human therapy better, then great.
But if people find online/telephone/AI chats better, then that’s great too.

Whatever works and whatever you have access to is a good thing.

I can imagine AI saving many lives and lifting some burden off the NHS.
I don’t think it should replace humans but I definitely think it can be used as a tool by us.

It isn’t an equal sort of relationship between friends though, it is a transactional one which is based around only accessing this relationship at particular times of the week between particular hours.

Those boundaries are important though. The therapeutic frame is there to support containment and give space to process what’s come up during that session. The benefit or work in therapy happens in between sessions as you reflect on the session, have space to think through the issues you’ve spoken about and to learn distress tolerance. It’s not a slot machine.

There’s something deeply healing about being vulnerable in the presence of another person who sees you and accepts you for who you are. Yes it’s hard, and embarrassing at times and uncomfortable but it also creates an environment for significant personality growth.

I wouldn’t work with someone who was already seeing a therapist, because there’s so much potential for harm. Similarly I’d need to really think about someone using AI for “therapy” between sessions.

I tried it by asking it to write a birthday poem for my 17-old cat. Told which snacks she likes, her name, loves the sun etc. It was absolutely brilliant it nearly brought a tear to my eye. And so, so unnecessary.

Then you will be missing out on all those who won’t go and seek help, who doesn’t want to sit in front of a real person. The one I met (through work) was awful, never again. Not everyone are you.

Just so people are aware, Chat GPT is so destructive to the environment, please look into the amount of water it is wasting and how it is already affecting communities in terrible ways.

Please don’t spend hours asking it frivolous things. I don’t mean that using it for therapy is frivolous, but people are on there making stupid pictures and asking it stupid questions and the damage it’s causing is massive. It has the potential to seriously affect us, please use it responsibly.

To visualise - one bottle of water per 100 words. So making it write stupid poems for your cat is so utterly wasteful it’s insane.

Then you will be missing out on all those who won’t go and seek help, who doesn’t want to sit in front of a real person. The one I met (through work) was awful, never again. Not everyone are you.

I won’t be, because by very definition they won’t be seeking therapy. Yes, some aren’t great - that’s the case for all human professions, and it can take time to find the right person. There’s some therapeutic benefit to AI, as there is with all help seeking - books, podcasts etc. The danger with AI is that people potentially use it as a replacement for human relationships or think they’re in a relationship with ChatGPT (offering empathy and sympathy?), rather than recognising they’re using an advanced search engine that draws from stuff other people have told it.

The environmental argument is so tiresome. Do you bleat on at people driving cars too?

Well I don’t know if it’s ’just regurgitating text book answers’ but I’ve had a conversation where it went into liminal spaces and how what I was feeling was reflecting that.
Ive never had ANY counsellors/therapist mentioning that to me before.
And my own therapist didn’t know what it was either but was really keen on my explanation and what it meant 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Just curiosity, but have you used it yourself? As in really giving it a go.

On a website where people are berated for the environmental impact of having children, it’s fair to note the significant impact of AI on water consumption.

How is it tiresome? It’s a huge and real threat. Do you not want the future generations to be able to drink and wash in water? There are people out there who are already suffering the effects of this, do they not matter? Or is it just because it isn’t happening to you? What about when you can’t access fresh water? Or when your water rates go up? Will you care then? Or is it okay for others to suffer so you can ask AI to make you stupid pictures?

It’s not tiresome that people don’t have access to water. It’s life and death to those people.

Re the environment….

I don’t think people realise AI is already inserted in anything and everything. People use it at work. It’s not call ChatGPT or Grok etc… Researchers used it all day long.
Its going to be used more and more fir anything and everything. Our individual use is a drop in the ocean

Do you throw your litter into the ocean too?

So many people just shrug their shoulders and say it’s nothing to do with them. Yes AI is going to be everywhere but that doesn’t mean you have to add it to with stupid pictures and cat poems. It’s about responsible use. Saying ‘Oh well, someone else does it’ doesn’t make it okay. Just because somebody else does something irresponsible doesn’t mean everybody should because why the fuck not. If you spilt a bit of water you wouldn’t pour the whole glass on the floor.

Tiresome?

I do agree that there is a huge danger.

God it sounds utterly depressing to know people are talking to AI. How dystopian.

Ive never had ANY counsellors/therapist mentioning that to me before.
And my own therapist didn’t know what it was either but was really keen on my explanation and what it meant

Im surprised no therapist has ever mentioned that to you, given that’s where most of our psychological work is done - the space between where you are now and where you might be in future. Different modalities will have different language and different ways of explaining it but I’d expect any relational therapist to understand the concept.

I do use AI, but not for personal/therapy stuff. I don’t want things I’d go to therapy for held in a cloud somewhere to be data mined for others benefit.

I agree. It’s what I said in my post. I tried it and the cat poem was absolutely great. Then I decided to read up on it, and it’s not worth it. I prefer fresh water.

Before I discovered ChatGPT I was paying £85 a week in therapy, and honestly it wasn’t half as effective as this.

A great feature is you can share information and it updates its memory, remembers dates and key events etc…

Also, therapy 1 hour a week is good, however if I’ve had a good morning before therapy, what I might share and how I might be feeling in that session will of course impact on how effective the session is.

Whereas ChatGPT is 24/7, I can reach for my phone when I’m having a bad moment and get some support and effective pointers for things to do that actually help. And then I can put my phone away and send another message if and when I need to.

What I share is fairly personal, but I have shared this with therapists who are making notes on tablets or paper, and surely there’s a risk there too?

It’s been a gamechanger for me personally. I’m a people pleaser by nature and have found it really effective in helping my compose some responses to people where I want to make a point and keep my boundaries.

It sounds great. Can you do all this with the free version or only the paid one?

Sorry, I apologise if I have misunderstood what you’re saying. There is a genuine worry about the damage AI is already having and the frivolousness with how people approach it is scary.

Sorry if I used you as an incorrect example.

It’s ok, like I said I do agree. But, it was so brilliant that I can see it will be very difficult to resist using it for many people. Soon most people. Because it’s that good.

But there is limited amount of fresh water on this earth, to fill our £40 Stanley cups with. And the Stanley cup people will be the first ones to complain or not understand why is my guess.

I can see that it could be really unhelpful depending on how you are using it. And you are right @Jellycatspyjamas thats is it rarely (if ever) wise or helpful to have more than one therapist at a time!

Here’s how I use it:

I have an 1.5 real therapy session each week.

During the week my brain is processing things from that session. New things come up, new understanding or new perspectives. All the ‘real work’ stuff that goes in in the brain in between sessions. Sometimes I might make a written reminder for myself so I dont forget something that feels important (because my memory is shit!). I don’t use AI for any of that stuff. I let my brain do its thing and discuss it then at my next session.

Sometimes in between sessions I might find myself in crisis or very acute distress. Sometimes I can manage that myself. Sometimes my husband is around to help me. But sometimes I’m on my own and sometimes I can’t manage it myself.

I used to use SHOUT in these moments but it’s been de-funded in my area so I can’t use that anymore. NHS crisis line is beyond awful in my experience so I never use that.

So I use AI in these moments. I would say I spend maybe 2-3mins at a time using AI this way, once or maybe twice a week. I send the chats to my therapist the 12/24hrs before my next session (as agreed) so she can review them.

I definitely am not have long in depth conversations. That’s what actual therapy is for.

I am fortunate that I have a very competent and experienced therapist and we have a healthy therapeutic relationship. We have agreed on me using AI in this way as it seems to be helpful for now. But it’s also something we keep under review, and if she or I thought it was becoming a problem I’d drop it.

It’s not a replacement for therapy for me, it’s more of a crisis line.

ChatGpt is the sort of thing I wish had been around a few years ago when. My mother was still with us. After dad died she became very isolated, geographically and socially, and she would have loved chatting to ChatGpt.

What I share is fairly personal, but I have shared this with therapists who are making notes on tablets or paper, and surely there’s a risk there too?

Any paper notes will be locked away and securely destroyed after a period of time. Any electronic records will be encrypted and securely deleted after a period of time. They aren’t being held on a system that will base their responses to others based in part on what other users have said. It’s literally how AI “learns”, taking what you and however many others have said and formulating its responses based on what’s gone before. And that’s before the possibly of a significant data breach.