To think voting for assisted dying legalisation could be a huge mistake???

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In Scotland they are voting to legalise assisted dying. Looking likely to pass. I am worried this will come to England now. Kier is already proving he doesn't care about old and disabled people so this scares me.
Obviously there are 2 sides but how can people be so ignorant? If passed this could be one of the biggest opportunity for corrupt evil behaviour of saving money on the NHS, care, people literally getting away murder, playing god! No not good. It's so scary.

I'm not sure what would be worse tbh (re suicide)

It will put pressure on the elderly to end their life prematurely so as not to "inconvenience" their family.

Some strong opinions here, poll is 30/70 kind of what I expected, thankyou everyone for the inputs.

How can you not appreciate which option would be worse

Not if the guidelines are followed. This isnt assisted dying for people who just happen to reach old age.

Apologies if I wasn't clear. I understand that not every death can be painless, or dignified. I am not against assisted dying or the conversation taking place. I do not agree with the bill being put forward right now. Both in its wording and against the backdrop of poor and inconsistant palliative care, and at a time where this government are refusing to recognise the needs of severely disabled people in their lifetimes, let alone their deaths.
Proper, consistent, reliable palliative care would make a massive difference to how many people would feel the need to end their own lives. Having been through this several times with people I loved dearly I know how much fear they had of what they couldn't be sure of.. would a hospice place be available if they needed it? No one could say. Would end of life drugs be given when requested or would a doctor delay the process? No one knew. Would they be able to stay at home? No one knew. Would there be people to support their loved ones? No one knew. These things and many more could and should be consistently available to everyone who knows they are dying. If someone is actively dying there is nothing to be gained by delaying end of life drugs for the sake of a few days. There should be a hospice place available for anyone who wants it. Having been through the process several times now, I would absolutely choose a hospice. But I have no idea if that option will be available or if I would have to stay at home being a burden on my family and forcing them into the position of carers or if I would end up in hospital with nurses and doctors who are run off their feet and unable to deliver basic pain medication on time reliably. End of life care is a mess currently, and we need to do better before we throw AD into the mix imo.
Sorry for the incredibly long post, I have seen my nan, aunt, dad and partner die in the past few years amd have a disabled son. I therefore have a lot of feelings on the matter and it is absolutely not straightforward.

Because I can't!! Just imagining my sister/partner telling me they are planning to top themselves, just getting the paperwork approved!! Nothing you can do about it babe, all legal and official like, see you in hell (if you are religious)

Vote in England is today.

I'm sorry your father is so unwell.

I think the difference in England is that our healthcare system is failing spectacularly.

So they can talk to you about it reasonably and rationally and you can be pretty certain it will be a controlled painless death on their own terms, or the other option is they kill themselves without assistance which would mean say jumping off a tall building, going in front of a train, drowning etc, and you knowing their final moments could be filled with absolute terror and pain. And you dont know which is worse?

But the current system of withdrawing food/water so you starve to death slowly or die or dehydration in hospital are perfectly ok in your eyes? Why is that not murder too if you consider medication murder? The purpose is the same - the instructions to withdraw nutrition/fluids/give fatal medication are all intended to end the person's life. All we want with this Bill is to be able to choose medication rather than dying slowly and painfully from withdrawal of care.

Family discussions over suicide?? Yes why not make it an annual thing, maybe over Christmas dinner? Just no. And that's my opinion. And on a personal note if I was adamant I was going to end my life because i was depressed i would certainly just do it, not selfishly drag my family into it before hand!!!

And Kier Starmer is on a mission to save money, so let's see....

And yet again, some of us live in these countries, and you are talking a lot of nonsense.

Unlikely. A lot of amendments to debate.

And this is what makes me uneasy.

On threads about the proposed benefit cuts hardliners have intimated that those deemed "economically productive" are "a problem". They "cost too much" to live. They are a drain on society. One poster was so vituperative about "boomers" who had "asset stripped" the nation without alleged care and concern for future generations that it took my breath away. If I'd been in a pub, drunk and grieving my 85 year old Dad, I'd probably be awaiting trial for GBH right now.

And this is the problem, trying to square away highly emotive and divisive issues with economics is a dangerous game.

I remain conflicted. As I've said, in those cases where someone is actively definitely dying and suffering over a prolonged period, upping the meds doesn't seem so bad. But AD isn't about that.

There is a risk of coercion and widening the scope, no matter how much we would like to imagine there isn't. And I have little faith in authority, due to direct experience of its consistent failures.

I'm not in a good place right now. I'm 56, state dependent, little hope of rejoining the work force and feel I have failed at life in many areas. I feel like a drain on society as it is. If a terminal illness or dementia reared its head, I probably would choose to take matters into my own hands. But I wouldn't want the state involved.

Some people would say this too will pass, some would perhaps agree that I am now a waste of space and resources and a potential burden. What keeps me here is not wanting to upset my family and my two cats.

If those suffering want AD, I'm in no place to disagree with them. I truly do feel for them.

My concerns are that death could become a default or easy solution, not because of genuine need but because it will become slyly ingrained that it's the right thing to do for society. That's where it all gets discordant for me.

That’s a fair comment. But it doesn’t change my concern: the Scottish Parliament hasn’t done a brilliant job of checks and balances in a number of important issues. It is precisely because this is so important that it’s a shame a weak government of political lightweights is leading it. And I say that as a Scottish citizen living with the consequences of their policies, and as someone who has voted for all the parties at some time or another. FWIW, my grandmother begged for death, but went on to endure 8 years of immense suffering.

Maybe you could share which country you live in rather than simply claiming reported articles are a load of nonsense? We can then look into the procedures in your country, the investment, the social care system. We live in a country where disabled DC are denied the full time education they are legally entitled to, where DNRs were added to disabled children without the parents knowledge during covid, our government are considering removing EHCPS for DC in mainsteam school and have tightened an already high criteria for claiming disability benefits. Here you usually wait months or years to see a counsellor or psychology. Our health service is crumbling. So of course many believe our government wouldn't prioritise safeguarding.

That wasn’t my point. I asked for how many you would be ok with suffering to prevent one or a handful being coerced.

It’s not the government leading this.
It’s a members bill - so it has been brought forward by an individual MSP, in this case Lib Dem Liam McArthur. It’s been scrutinised by the Health Committee, who produced a 140 page report, which said it wasn’t for them to recommend the bill or not, but pointing out various area where changes maybe needed as the progresses at Holyrood
FWIW they’ve been widely praised for doing a
good job,
I know there’s lots of issues with politics in Scotland, believe me I do, but people do seem to be treating this, rightly, with the utmost seriousness
And I say again. It has NOTHING to do with the Scottish Government

Thank you, I could not agree with you more.
This Labour government’s way to try to turn around the decades of Tory social neglect is apparently just to punch down on disabled children and disabled adults as much as they can, regardless of longstanding and unhelped need, purely to save money. I am absolutely ashamed to see it as a Labour voter.

I thought I was voting for a party that would support the NHS and education and social care. Labour are doing great on the international stage which is something, but domestically, it’s a shitshow for so many people. I fear that we will end up with Reform in charge because of this which is even more terrifying.

Now with the latest announcements about PIP and the SEND education issues, families with disabled children, and disabled adults are living in great fear and anxiety of what little support they do have being taken away. They are being given no hope of the government fixing any of the ongoing structural problems like with SEND education, the response is just that they want to remove support and remove parents legal rights to challenge that. So with disabled lives being literally valued so low, of course there is absolutely no trust around assisted dying. You must be joking.

Following this debate I have come to see assisted dying as a luxury belief for those with a big financial cushion only, who assume that all other people live as they do. Those people could pay to go to Switzerland if that is their choice. The huge lack of safeguarding consideration here and low quality of socio-economic understanding amongst the proponents of assisted dying has made me see the UK as completely the wrong political climate to introduce this into.

Having nursed for 36 years, 25 with the very vulnerable, I couldn't agree more OP. I absolutely would love for the terminally ill, or those suffering the horrendous consequences of some chronic illnesses to have a choice, but unfortunately there are too many vulnerable groups.

My Mum has been very clear that she would not want to live past the time when she is able to be in her own home and care for herself.

My Dad has only said he would not want to live with dementia.

The problem with this is that people can change their minds. As a pp said at one point the will to live is strong. My ex dp said he wouldn't want to be kept alive, would prefer to be taken outside and shot etc etc, before he was actually in the situation. When he knew he didn't have long, he was desperate to stay with us as long as he could. He refused a DNR as long as he could as he was worried signing one would mean they just left him to die, and didn't give him every chance he could have had. It really isn't straightforward.

Yes and nobody will hold them to that if they do change their minds, but the point is we have discussed it as a family and if they get to that stage and opt for assisted suicide it won't be a great shock for anyone or make me fear for their mental health. It's what they've always said they wanted.