To think voting for assisted dying legalisation could be a huge mistake???

[MyLimeGuide]

In Scotland they are voting to legalise assisted dying. Looking likely to pass. I am worried this will come to England now. Kier is already proving he doesn't care about old and disabled people so this scares me.
Obviously there are 2 sides but how can people be so ignorant? If passed this could be one of the biggest opportunity for corrupt evil behaviour of saving money on the NHS, care, people literally getting away murder, playing god! No not good. It's so scary.

It's important to look at the model used in countries where this is successful. By successful i mean none of the uncontrolled 'widening of criteria' which opponents of this bill fear.

I understand the slippery slippery slope fears. But things can't stay as they are.

I fully, fully support a dying person to be able to choose to end their life peacefully. I would choose this for myself & all my family members would choose the same. Like PP have said, we don't allow animals to suffer in the way we allow humans to. If I were to be diagnosed with an incurable, terminal painful illness I would want to end my life peacefully. And I have witnessed many elderly and dying people beg for death - past the point where they can manage to end it themselves but still knowing there's no relief in sight. It is horrendous. I think there would need to be very strict criteria and guidelines and an awareness that the person must have full capacity. (I would also personally from my own experience like to see those with advanced dementia be offered this - watching my grandfather screaming and crying in what ended up being a baby like state for 2 years was horrendous and he would not have wanted that for himself- I know that is not going to happen due to lack of capacity but I do think it's cruel to prolong a person's suffering).

At the moment we can travel to countries like Switzerland for assisted suicide. Although that is for people who can afford it of course.

We are all going to die, that’s not up for debate. Having worked in palliative care, a ‘good’ death is rare, and more something said to comfort the family and friends of the person dying. Most illnesses, sadly result in some suffering towards the end. Some illness (mainly the neurological ones) cause suffering right from diagnosis and they are incredibly cruel for both the patient and their loved ones. Having watched both my parents die, particularly my lovely, lovely mother, even though she had the best care possible, she still had a horrible final week. I’m under no illusion that that final week must have dragged on and on and on for her. No one should have to suffer like that, and there was no cure, her diagnosis was a death sentence, but an incredibly cruel one. Personally I don’t think we should keep people alive at all costs, the reality is all our clever medicines and treatments keep people alive well beyond their natural life span, that’s great if it brings quality of life, or allows more time for affairs to be put in order. But i don’t think we should enforce life on those who don’t actively want it.
of course proper safeguards must be built in, but when my life is done and over, I don’t want to suffer, I want to be allowed to go to sleep and sink peacefully into oblivion (and maybe beyond….who knows!) nor do I want my family to go through the torment of watching me suffer. I want them to accept and not be afraid of death, and to let me go when my physical body is at its end.

I want to be allowed to go to sleep and sink peacefully into oblivion (and maybe beyond….who knows!)

But again, that statement isn't always true for assisted dying. Even patients at Dignistas sometimes die begging for water. In Canada patients can take days to die. It totally depends in the method used and whether doctors would use sedative first. It is misleading to say that assisted death means falling asleep and passing peacefully.

it absolutely can, as you say it depends on the process.

You oy have to go to some elderly nursing homes to see that assisted dying is a kinder option. Vegetables being hoisted from one spot to another with no memory, limited speech, fed liquid diets and sat in front of the TV.

It's inhumane to not allow assisted dying.

Assisted dying is the slippery slope to eugenics.

There is a big difference between eugenics and saving someone just because we can. Children born so prematurely with significant disabilities they will never move, speak, eat or play. Adults with horrific degenerative conditions. Dementia. Yes some mental health too.

Not all life should be preserved. Modern medicine is brilliant but with it comes responsibility for another option.

Edited to add - two of my children have mild disabilities, one because she was born at 28 weeks. This isn't an ableist post.

I thought that had strict criteria and wasn't for those with depression.

Except none of these people will be entitled to have assisted dying.

In Belgium people with dementia are murdered at a certain point if they’ve agreed to assisted dying while still of sound mind. They’re held down and killed even if they resist and express upset. That isn’t assisted dying, it’s murder.

It’s akin to a woman giving consent to have sex while sober, and then saying no while drunk but the man has sex with her anyway. Should he be able to argue that she consented earlier so he was within his rights to have sex? I don’t think so. Same with assisted dying for someone who no longer has mental capacity but who consented while they still did.

I agree with you. But let’s be honest, this isn’t about allowing euthanasia in cases where there is no quality of life or where someone is incompatible with life.

Even on this thread we have people arguing for assisted dying for people with mental illness for instance.

In Canada people are offered assisted dying rather than support with mental health/disability/homelessness even.

The bill, if it goes through, is very clear. only people who have less than six months to live will be allowed assisted dying. But already people are saying that it’s not enough. And the more that is allowed, the more people will want.

Yes I think it could be abused. Any system can be. But I think in terms of the greater good it needs to happen with as many safeguards in place as possible.

So many people suffer so much pain and indignity and beg for it to stop and there is no help. I think for those people and their families, it is the best thing.

No there are clinics in Switzerland where you just need to be of sound mind and not coerced by anyone and you can choose to end your life if you wish if your suffering is mental e.g depression. I read an article on the BBC news about a depressed British man who did this. His family were upset that they werent informed so I think that prompted the entry requirements to be changed so a family member needs to be aware of what you are doing.

I would have thought that being mentally ill meant you weren't of sound mind but I suppose it's cash.

I've suffered with depression most of my life but I consider myself of sound mind in the sense that I'm capable of making my own informed rational decisions which is what is relevant here. It gives me peace of mind knowing that there is this option available to me if needs be rather than going in front of a train and causing a mess!

There are lots of ways of committing suicide other than jumping in front of a train.

Depression is judged as a mental illness and people take medication in order to alleviate that illness.

Someone may be suicidal while depressed and not suicidal when feeling better. These feelings are often temporary and we have a distinct lack of mental health support in this country.

I would stop someone jumping off a bridge and others would let them jump as it's their decision.

Your talking to someone who has suffered many years of depression, you dont need to tell me these things. Going by train would be my method if I couldn't go to Switzerland. I know which option id prefer. Medication doesnt work for everyone. Counseling doesnt work for everyone.

You have no idea of my experience with mental illness so it's best not to make assumptions.

Jumping in front of a train is incredibly selfish but that's part of the illness. My point being that's it's an illness and the feelings aren't usually permanent.

Well I'm talking about my choices. And you clearly dont understand what you are talking about when you say it's not permanent and it passes. The whole thing about people who use these clinics are that it's a process you go through that takes time. Its planned and thought out. There are of course plenty of people who make an impulsive decision to end their life when they are at their lowest point. Jumping off bridges etc.

As for jumping in front of a train being selfish-well all the more reason for using these clinics!!

I do know what I'm talking about so again, best not to make assumptions.

You are acting as though there are two choices, jump in front of a train or pay to use a clinic. There are many ways to end your own life which don't involve traumatising other people.

I'm not talking about making spur of the moment decisions. Depression and suicidal ideation can last a long time.

I've never made any assumptions about you, I'm talking about my choices not yours. And once again I said it was my choice to use a train, what are you not getting? Where did I say there arent any other options for other people.

What are the situations with mental illnesses where you think assisting the person to die would be the moral response?

God it’s like what they did hundreds of years ago when they would take a long walk out of the community or off a cliff so they didn’t burden their families and communal resources. I cannot believe we are back there again. How progressive we are. Jesus.

You made assumptions by saying that I don't know what I'm talking about.

I am talking about you. Jumping in front of a train will traumatise the driver, the passengers, bystanders and whoever has to clean it up. It's incredibly selfish.

It's said that suicide is a long term solution to a short term problem.

I'm going to ask a really blunt question: why would jumping in front of a train be your chosen alternative to assisted death?