To think that we are indeed an island of strangers, but…

[jewelcase]

…it’s not to do with immigration.

I definitely feel like we have less sense of belonging and community than a generation ago. But I think it’s more to do with the atomisation and monetisation of our culture than immigration.

30 years ago we all watched the same TV because there were only four channels and you couldn’t watch whatever, whenever. Soaps and Saturday evenings and Christmas Day got 20m+ viewers.

We all saw the same films.

We all listened to the same music. The Top 40 was big news and everyone knew who was number one.

Going to a sporting event or a gig was relatively cheap, so available to all.

The news was the news. There weren’t ten versions of it to pick a favourite from, one for every political persuasion.

Now all that is gone. We exist in little bubbles. We have been gifted endless choice and have all chosen different things. Where groups do exist, they’re often online rather than in real life, and often goad from a distance rather than seek common ground in person.

We are an island of strangers. Nothing to do with immigrants though.

Very true.

Nope.

30 years ago was 1995. Lots of people were into garage or acid house and went to raves and didn’t care about the top 40.

I didn’t mean that there were no sub cultures, because obviously there were. I just meant that there were much bigger and more communal ‘mega-cultures’ which no longer exist.

Biggest selling single in 1995 was Robson and Jerome with 1.8m sales. I’ve just looked that up and was surprised given that it was Oasis v Blur that year, two other enormous, zeitgeist defining songs.

Biggest selling single of 2024? Stick Season, 35,000 sold. Obviously a ton of downloads too but the fact is that the shared experience has been much diluted in the name of broadened choice.

Rampant capitalism, materialism and technology have killed communities and made us all feel like strangers. Nothing to do with forriners. So pissed off with Starmer for playing this immigrant card.

After hearing Starmer's speech about being strangers on an Island, I have to ask WHAT are Labour now?

Our street is very friendly and lovely and very multicultural. We are not strangers. Sometimes I wish it wasn't so chatty as I am busy!
Starmer is a twat. Farage is a cunt.

I think the biggest difference in 30 years is the fact everyone, or nearly everyone - car drivers, pedestrians, in shops even at tills is glued to their phone.

People are astounded when I don't answer the phone/return a WhatsApp or message for hours (because I leave my phone on the table)

There no shared spaces anymore. We’re a very individualistic nation with little sense of community outside of those who follow a religion.

100% this.

I was the same and then decided I wasn’t going to be.

In part you’re right. The more people have in common the more cohesive a society. But immigration has a massive impact on this cohesiveness. People who lack the sane cultural references- say to someone in their late 40s - “only fools and horses - that bar scene” they’ll know. - kids talk about their cultural touchstones, eg a certain you tuber. refer to Christmas as people will have similar memories, everyone young and old could refer to Home alone, Everyone would know say Tom Hanks. People are losing touch with traditions because we’re more intent on telling school kids about Eid say or Diwhalli than May Day.

We do need to prioritise ensuring immigrants both new and old are fully brought into British values, traditions and culture. If people live here these should be their primary focus. We should stop trying to adapt Britain to fit their needs.

I feel privileged to have grown up and gone into adulthood during the best decades - late 70s, 80’s and 90’s. The internet and social media may have been a great invention, but it’s turned people into existing in some sort of virtual reality in their own heads, where they don’t need other people, and life is no longer as simple as it used to be.

Yeah, I do think that's largely true OP, though I would say it had already started 30 years ago.

I do actually think that large influxes of newcomers into communities also affects community cohesion though. But all these other issues makes communities even less able to integrate immigrants effectively.

This is what having a Tory government for 32 years out of the last 46 has purposely created.

Agree with the we all watched tv together and now we are all so much more divided
heck we don’t even talk to shop assistants anymore

I feel like we have more in common than separates us with people from other countries, and in fact things are less "strange" across the planet with globalisation, thngs are becoming homogenous. This is a good and bad thing. Easier to get on and find common ground with others, less celebration of unique things about different countries or regions.

Separation into the nuclear family and separate households, less so local communities started post WW2, it's not a 21st century thing.

People who lack the sane cultural references- say to someone in their late 40s - “only fools and horses - that bar scene” they’ll know. - kids talk about their cultural touchstones, eg a certain you tuber. refer to Christmas as people will have similar memories, everyone young and old could refer to Home alone, Everyone would know say Tom Hanks. People are losing touch with traditions because we’re more intent on telling school kids about Eid say or Diwhalli than May Day.

Sounds boring and parochial to me. How dull to keep mixing with only the same type of people with exactly the same background and cultural references.

That's a very good summing up of the atomisation of society and how it happened, OP.

NC for this

It’s funny as there was a car accident the other day outside my house and I’ve never seen so much community
there were people stopping traffic, getting blankets, asking people if they had a dashcam, offering up CCTV, helping remove the windscreen so I could climb in to get to the worst injured person
people were stuck for hours, and waiting around to give statements and nobody complained
Met a neighbour I’ve never seen before who made me coffee and gave me her number

I went to Aldi after to get some milk and partly because I needed to drive or I wouldn’t have got in a car. The staff member I see in there regularly saw my cut arm (from the windscreen) and asked if I was ok, then gave me flowers
It honestly made me really proud there was so much help, within 5 mins people were getting first aid and traffic stopped

I agree. I think the decline in faith-based communities, combined with the increase in British movement within the UK (a lot to do with the rise in uni attendance) have both contributed.

Putting the religious element aside, I grew up in a Christian church and therefore had regular, stable contact with multiple generations. By the time I moved for uni I had a lot of experience with babies and children, and also knew lots of older people, many of whom were mentors and cheerleaders.

Several location moves later and no longer religious, so I'm starting to build friendships at my availability community, which is DC's school. So that's people in the same life stage as me. I don't know any teenagers at all here, and my communication with people 10+ years older is confined to a nodding acquaintance with neighbours.

Which I do think can contribute to generational echo chambers and also contribute to social issues where previously other generations would be part of the solution - anti-social teenage behaviour, pressures of childcare, lonely elderly.

People I know who are still religious and also non-religious where several generations of a family have stayed in one area, do seem to have more of a community around them.

About 15 years ago I thought the internet would mean the end of the monoculture but it actually went the other way. It's been surprising to me how many communal cultural touchstones still exist - the kind of thing that most people can and do talk about even if they haven't actually experienced it themselves. Taylor Swift. Saltburn. The Traitors. Beyonce. Adolescence.

I totally agree that the atomisation of society is because of capitalism rather than immigration though. I might also throw austerity into the mix, notably the way in which bricks-and-mortar community hubs (like youth centres) were shut down due to funding cuts.

Social media is a more complex factor - the internet has enabled community in a way that was inconceivable 30 years ago. But these communities are global, not neighbourhood - think teenage K-pop fans.

Lots of truth in what you say OP but the mass immigration has definitely affected the social cohesion of many areas of the UK too. Communities need time to build and settle and the people in them need to feel some sense of ownership and stability which is not helped by churning populations of short term renters.
I live and work in areas where huge numbers of people are recent arrivals and it’s not a positive thing. Quite understandably people socialise with their compatriots and focus on earning money - not investing in their community.
We need a lot of time to absorb the recent millions and focus on integrating them.
Mu two sets of neighbours don’t speak enough English to chat. They seem lovely people but I can’t build any relationship with them.

To me they are strangers on an island.

You might have a point with the churn of short-term renters but that has nothing to do with immigration. Buy-to-let culture has indeed affected social cohesion.