To think that we are indeed an island of strangers, but…

[jewelcase]

…it’s not to do with immigration.

I definitely feel like we have less sense of belonging and community than a generation ago. But I think it’s more to do with the atomisation and monetisation of our culture than immigration.

30 years ago we all watched the same TV because there were only four channels and you couldn’t watch whatever, whenever. Soaps and Saturday evenings and Christmas Day got 20m+ viewers.

We all saw the same films.

We all listened to the same music. The Top 40 was big news and everyone knew who was number one.

Going to a sporting event or a gig was relatively cheap, so available to all.

The news was the news. There weren’t ten versions of it to pick a favourite from, one for every political persuasion.

Now all that is gone. We exist in little bubbles. We have been gifted endless choice and have all chosen different things. Where groups do exist, they’re often online rather than in real life, and often goad from a distance rather than seek common ground in person.

We are an island of strangers. Nothing to do with immigrants though.

Our neighbours aren't keen on us not because we don't speak English but because we have less money than them. I find that more of a divide these days.

Its a nice distraction to offer up to draw attention away from the fact most people are worked to the bone purely to survive. I imagine if it was still the norm to keep a family on one wage, or one full time and one part time wage, there would be a lot more time and energy for people to spend on their community.

I agree and I also think we all move around too much within the uk. I'm getting tired of beginning to form new friendships just to find someone is planning on moving to another city or even another country by the end of the year, It feels like they just want me to kill time with!

I was one of them and completely alienated from my peers because of it. My god music has never been so good. Still listen to it now on SoundCloud

I was at primary school in the 80s and we celebrated Christian and non-Christian festivals. I loved it! I did, and still do, live in a city of massive diversity. It is not immigration that is the issue - selfish, individualistic attitudes and entitlement will ruin us.

It’s interesting to me that, in general terms, the people most likely to complain about immigrants as the cause of societal fragmentation are the same people who want to defund the BBC (unifying national broadcaster), and reduce the size of the state (unifying provider of public services).

They are also the most opposed to reforming IHT (which in its current form furthers wealth inequality) and seem not to mind about acquiring multiple BTL properties (which distort house prices and thus break up communities).

Interesting.

@Changeissmall Mu two sets of neighbours don’t speak enough English to chat. They seem lovely people but I can’t build any relationship with them.

i think this is what Starmer meant. If enough people come over and speak that same language and they gravitate to the same place for that reason , they remain in that little enclave and don’t bother to learn English to a proficient level. There is no cohesion, just groups of strangers living alongside each other.

Language skills are included in the white paper.

I think ad OP suggests, we are becoming an island of strangers, the days of our parents/ grandparents where people knew there neighbours well, left doors unlocked etc are long gone. Sadly though there are also an increasing number of areas in the country where people of a different background are simply not welcome and that is due to immigration

Yes, I count myself lucky to be Gen X.

Well, with Starmer's new measures targeting legal taxpaying immigrants, I, a foreigner with English as my first language, brought up on a diet of English culture and with mostly English friends, will be leaving. Many others in the same boat will be too. We feel cheated because the government has lied and changed the goalposts to extract more money from legal immigrants.

It will indeed be an island of strangers when those who have integrated are forced out for following the rules.

What do you base that assumption on? Also I think your conclusions on certain matters are very skewed. Eg - I don’t want to define the BBC, however I think its practices do need investigation-it is so far from being objective. If it is to be a unifying broadcaster it needs to move from its leftist woke ideals to being more centrist. The overwhelming bias of the BBC is what most people have issue with.

Nonsense. I was at school in the 80s and we were taught about all the religions and I lived in a mainly white town.

The main difference was that we were taught that everyone should be treated with respect, or at least politeness.

That ship has long sailed.

I base the assumption on polling data. Those most opposed to immigration are also most likely to oppose tax rises, the BBC etc.

Whatever the reason for wanting to defund the BBC (whether it’s ‘woke’ or whatever) is irrelevant. The BBC is a unifying force because of its status as the national broadcaster. The fact that one can point to alternative news sources as ‘less woke’ or whatever proves my point that we’ve become more atomised as a result of things other than immigration eg a proliferation of choices of ‘news’ to fit our own individual preferences.

Interestingly, where I live we know our neighbours very well, have keys to others houses to feed cats/water plants etc quite often our door is unlocked we have very low numbers of immigrants. In fact, I’m struggling to think of anyone on our estate that isn’t British born and bred.

On the other hand I’ve lived in an area with extremely high immigration- doors locked even when home ( not that that stops the multiple thefts from the neighbourhood each night) , constant anti social behaviour, neighbours not integrating, keeping in their own communities.

Multiculturalism simply doesn't work.

Without shared values, you can't have a cohesive community, add the this several decades worth of individualism, and this is where we are.

The government actually wants this, not because they believe in a happy chappy, let's sing the rainbow song while we dance around the altar of inclusion, they encourage it because an electorate of the individual is a weak electorate. If there is no consensus as a society, they can pass whatever laws they want. There will never be sufficient numbers of people, of any particular standing, to make a valid objection.

We used to watch the same T.V, read the same books, live in the same houses and complain about the same things. Now we all watch different media, live differently, and our concerns are voiced in echo chambers.

Exactly - much easier to build a community you can actually meet at the children's centre, youth centre, library, swimming pool...

Our allotment is hugely chatty - a shared interest.

Live sport/eurovision/reality tv evictions are the only things we watch at the same time now.
Which is one of the reasons live sport is a good thing

We even get our news all over the place, different slants, fewer people give deeper thought to events, so conversations with others, not close friends or family, are down to “hairdresser chair small talk”

Actually some of the time I have no idea of what babble the teens are giggling at on YouTube!

Let me guess you live in a nice middle class leafy London street ?

Multiculturalism could have worked if the UK was friendlier to skilled, educated, English speaking immigrants. But no.. Those with skills are leaving now.

Live sport/eurovision/reality tv evictions are the only things we watch at the same time now.

But we don't - just try posting a thread here about any of those things, and watch the responses flood in from people disclaiming any knowledge of them.

Err no a very unleafy, half council housing half not street in Manchester.

That's true op

Completely agree.

If people cared so much about these traditions they would teach their kids about them themselves, not expect school to teach it. Of course they learn about other cultures, that's what education is for. But if traditions are to continue they need to be acted on.

And many people do. School needs to be involved because there are increasing numbers of children whose parents will not know the traditions of the school place they live. That is the point, people who don’t know need to be integrated which will happen through education It is more important to learn about the culture of the country you’re in than other cultures, that’s an add on, a secondary thing.