To have not known kids have to attain grade 4 in maths?

[Pepperpotladles]

I did not know this!
I have obviously been living under a rock.
So today someone told me that if kids get grades 1, 2 or 3 in their maths GCSE, it is compulsory that all these kids have to keep on studying GCSE maths until they achieve a grade 4 or above, and they have to keep trying to achieve this up until their 25th birthday.
Is this true?!?
I can't believe my ears.
What about kids who simply can't achieve grade 4 or above in maths, for any number of reasons?

I work in an FE College.

If a learner has an EHCP and stay until they are 25, then they will continue with Maths (alongside their core area) until they pass it. This is funding related.

If they don't have an EHCP, they study Maths until they are 19, and can then choose to drop it. By this point they have usually got their vocational achievement and leave anyway, as education won't be free after this point.

For those that are really struggling we usually offer a Functional Skills Maths equivalent - however they will always be gradually working up to a Level 2.

“Most” degree courses (even fine art) require gcse maths grade 4. They want students to be able to cope with their own finances and be able to read timetables and get to their lessons on time. Some don’t require it, but most do.

I think the core problem, and it goes right back to O levels and CSEs, is that (as PP said) Gove etc al made the GCSEs highly academic and exam based, And removed any safety net qualification for less academic children at KS4. So those who really just need to crack on with an apprenticeship or job or vocational course, with their basic maths/English skills qualification already in place, are the ones stuck with extra study.

If they gain a 4 this is what is considered a low C in the previous grading. It now goes upto 9.
At 16 if they have not achieved this they will continue either until they get the 4 or they finish FE.
If doing a level 2 apprenticeship and don't have a grade 4 they will do functional skills which is pass or fail at approximately 63%. They will do this until they either pass or complete their apprenticeship. Anyone starting after they are 19 it doesn't apply to. The age of 25 is completely wrong.

I AM TALKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT LD AND SEN.
My God, how rude you are.

Well this has been an enlightening thread.
I have learnt a lot this evening.
My DC has SEN and is diagnosed with Dyscalculia.
Year 7.
Maths at secondary school makes her cry with levels of frustration and not understanding that I've never seen in her before.
She is projected to never achieve grade 4 at GCSE.
I had no idea they would have to keep resitting it beyond year 11 if they get less than a 4! (Which DD will.)
I'm depressed now😥

Very easily it seems, if someone has an EHCP.

There is no compulsory education after the age of 19. How on earth could adults aged 19-25 be coerced into taking maths lessons and exams every year in a free society? You need to apply a little bit of critical thinking to outlandish claims like this, OP.

An EHCP supports a young person to the age of 25 and they may choose to work towards achieving 4.

Have you forgotten what you wrote in your post?

You said “all these kids have to keep on studying GCSE maths until they achieve a grade 4 or above, and they have to keep trying to achieve this up until their 25th birthday.”

The funding being available for them to continue trying to get that pass - if they choose to - is not the same as them being forced to do it.

The funding being available for them to continue trying to pass until age 25 is not the same as them being forced to do that, as OP’s first post claimed.

There's a government consultation going on right now as regards education and quite possibly a lot of the policies now won't be in place by the time your child does GCSEs. The government know the low pass rate for retakes is s an issue for example. In the meantime, I'd advise supporting your child as much as possible, getting extra tuition too if possible and cross fingers the situation will be different in a few years x

Only for two years until she’s 18. Not until she’s 25. It’s not the end of the world.

I was talking about the twenty percent of 16-65 year olds who read below the level expected for a 10 year old.

Thank you.
We are using a private maths tutor, but her Dyscalculia is a very real barrier to learning and retaining maths, even with extra sessions at school, small focused groups and private tuition.
Thanks for the info you've provided. Sounds like there may be hope....🙏

GCSEs are marked so about 1/3rd will fail Math/Eng Lang.

Not quite: the grade distribution is set like that. Marks are awarded as per the mark schemes and grade boundaries are set to meet the curve that is required.

No examiner is marking to fail students.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd7dl10p9qno

there is some change ahead. It is unfathomable
for those who have no experience of SEN or ND that a 4 is unobtainable (no matter how much you try and how many times you repeat). Though it really shouldn’t be. It is likely that many of the people that you work or interact daily with are ND. If you find it unfathomable then I suggest you educate yourself further. ND doesn’t equal stupid, just “mind block” in certain areas that others find as easy as breathing.

I got a 3 @ Standard Grade. Failed the Credit.

In 5th year, they tried to make me do whatever the intermediate level of maths between SG and Higher was called back then.

I sat in class and read Last of the Mohicans instead.

I was warned I wouldn't be able to go into teaching without a credit pass in maths. Which was true enough. But I'm not sure the average parent would have wanted someone as shit and disinterested in maths as me teaching their little darlings anyway. My loss is humanity's gain.

Yes but most kids won't have an EHCP.

That’s rubbish. My daughter took the higher paper and got a 5 and maths was not a strong point for her

Also, of interest it does matter after age 19. In my
professional role, there are senior leadership development opportunities for which as a minimum ….must have a pass in maths and English. Even for the PHD educated. I was a maths failure and a retake failure but have a masters in science. Unbelievable that this level of discrimination is rife

Actually another 2 years of studying maths when you have diagnosed Dyscalculia and then resitting exams only to get below a 4 all over again is self esteem annihilation.
So not the end of the world, no.
But damaging enough.

I suppose it depends on the school.

If maths is not someone's strong point, then getting a 5 on a Higher paper is probably harder than getting a 5 on a Foundation paper.

DS (who has asd) luckily got a 4 ‘in English, although his teachers said that had his result been based on school work rather than exams he would have scored a hell of a lot higher. We managed to get him special permission to not redo maths, he didn’t pass it, however he actually got ptsd from maths in year 11 due to some incidents with a teacher. We needed to do something as he just wouldn’t go to the maths class at college and it was effecting his attendance so we had to go through some deep Channels. I’d rather teach him maths at home sporadically than have him breakdown in a class. He’s doing his course which his course leader tells me he’s thriving in, he’s actually top of his class and well ahead of everyone else.

You don’t need formal qualifications in maths to be able to do those kinds of things, though.

If she's year 7 now, there is a fair chance that her underlying abilities to reason and problem solve will develop substantially over the next few years. Since her dyscalculia is known, I hope that her tutors and teachers will be able to work with you and her to use her strengths to shore up the areas of weakness and maximise her functional outcomes.

But I also hope for your sake, and because I basically agree it would be better, that she will be allowed to prioritise a functional skills maths qualification when the time comes, and let GCSE maths be an optional extra if necessary.