9 yr old told off for calling non-binary teacher Sir

[Nowherecitizen]

My friend’s son was told off by a teacher at his school for referring to them as ‘Sir’. The teacher is male but identifies as non-binary.

Their title is Mx which the children are aware of. But the little boy simply looked at an adult who is visibly male and used the term Sir.

I have seen this teacher and they are 'masculine' looking but will sometimes wear a skirt and heels.

Friend’s DS felt bad and can’t recall exactly what was said to them but said the teacher was ‘very cross’.

AIBU to think this was mishandled? Surely the child should be reminded gently of the preferred identity of this adult but should not face a telling off?

What is the non-binary version of Sir anyway?

I don’t think kids understand the concept of non binary. I’m late 20’s and even I can’t comprehend how someone doesn’t feel either gender- so trying to explain to kids, they’re not going to understand or know how to address them correctly. Transgender is a different matter, if they are male to female for example and they present female (as in dress feminine, don’t have facial hair etc) then it’s simpler to explain to children that some people don’t feel like they was born in the correct body.

I think kids should be kids, putting these pronouns and confusing children with adult topics are ruining their childhoods. It should be simple, they shouldn’t have the complexities of adult issues forced upon them.

This gender bollocks is doing my head in.

There’s a girl in my son’s class (currently in Y3) who ‘identifies’ as a boy and has been referred to as one by her family and staff at school since Reception. Beyond confusing for the other children. She lines up with the boys and adults play along. But she uses the girls toilets. One of the boys in their class tried to use the girls toilets this year and was told off and he said ‘but uses them and she’s a boy’. I’m all for be who you want to be, live and let live, etc. but it is beyond confusing for primary aged children and my son cannot get his head around the fact that she’s a girl but she’s also a boy. I have tried to have a gentle discussion around it but I refuse to tell him that you can identify as whatever you want to be and everyone else has to play along. He’ll be trying to identify as a Minecraft character or something and start mining the playground.

I despair at the world.

I don't wish to teacher bash. They do a challenging and often thankless task. I would be supportive of a teacher pulling up my child on poor behaviour or rudeness, but I really would not be happy about my 9 year old child being told off for having a genuine slip up in the way they addressed a non-binary teacher. It's not something I feel the teacher should have pulled the child up on or made them feel bad about.

It has nothing to do with poor-regulation skills. It's to do with having my child's back when there's cause to do so.

It is

The man is paid to teach - keep your identity out of the classroom.

Non binary is not a protected characteristic; and adults who work with children or vulnerable people should not use them for validation.

What happens if a white man identifies as a black woman? Is that ok?

There are an awful lot of very mentally unwell people in the world we live in today and it’s getting worse by the day, I’m sure most employers will see the increase in the use of AI as a blessed relief so the won’t have to put up with all this nonsense from humans,

This is not the case. See Taylor v Jaguar Land Rover Ltd [2020] which established non-binary and gender fluid identities are protected under the Gender Reassignment characteristic. And no, the SC judgment has not affected that.

Some interesting logic around these discussions.

This man should keep his identify out of the classroom......but perfectly fine for teachers to ask their class to address them by a title signifying their identity as a married woman.

There's no such thing as 'presenting' as a woman, and threads like this often ask 'but what do you mean' when someone is described in that way......but someone is 'clearly' a man, based on appearance.

I shouldn't have to enter into their fiction.......but if I were to meet a member of the royal family I'd be expected to enter into their fiction about their superiority to me and address them as 'highness' or 'ma'am', or address religious leaders by their titles whether I find the premise on which they're based imaginary or not.

I suppose people are well aware, using the evidence of their senses, that I'm a married woman. I still do not wish to be called Mrs HusbandName. I would correct anyone following the evidence of their senses who called me that, and I would expect that correction to be respected, whether the other person accepted women using titles that don't indicate marital status or not (many people do not find this acceptable). I've told you what I want to be called and I expect my wishes to be respected.

@MrsEverest nailed it really.

She most definitely did not 'nail it'

She said that people should call her whatever she wants.

Why should I? Courtesy?

Anyway - she's an adult and is presumably talking about friends, colleagues and family who she has a reciprocal relationship with.

This is a child whose teacher is forcing them to comply with their belief system, indulging themselves in using the power they have over that child in their employed role to get what they want.

That is not okay. The child's needs are more important than the adult's validation.

If you think your belief system is more important than the children you are paid to educate, you should not be teaching.

I've gone down this road before but here we are again ...

I want to be addressed as her excellency high emperess of the universe then I should expect my wishes to be respected, should I?

I agree with the sentiment of what you say @MrsEverest and earlier on said that children should be taught about being respectful from an early age. My point is I don’t think the child was being intentionally disrespectful - he was just trying to get his teacher’s attention and called out ‘Sir’ through force of habit and perhaps by doing a very quick assessment of Mr X’s appearance.

Everyone is either male or female - that is an inescapable truth.

Some people feel that they don’t like the stereotypes and expectations that society links to their sex. That makes them pretty normal imo - I’m sure many people feel like that. However some people feel that they are special and they need to announce it, adopt a special title and ‘category’.

People like this teacher seem to think that their preferences and lifestyle choices trump reality and they can compel the speech of others. This is not the case.

Neither children nor adults should respect someone who demands something from them that do not choose to give.

Totally off the point but don't we all have these people in our lives - sometimes colleagues, sometimes family members that are narcissistic and demanding and who everyone has to tiptoe around, because otherwise they will kick off?

Why do we tolerate this sort of behaviour from adults?

Yeh, I got called Sir litetally just yesterday when doing the register (I'm female). I wasn't fussed - it was a mistake. The kidd laughed for a second and I ignored it.

If, however, a child was doing it deliberately to be sarcastic or to annoy me, I'd be cross and tell them off.

Hard to know in this situation without being there.

But a child could not be calling a male teacher Sir in order to be sarcastic or annoying (he could potentially use a sarcastic voice but that’s a different issue).

This teacher has asked an unreasonable thing of his students - that they stop using the language they have been familiarised with since birth and use new and counter-intuitive words instead. This is not ok.

I would raise merry hell over this.
About time this nonsense stopped especially around young children.
Is it Mix? As in mixed up, confused?

@MrsEverest - this is very well put. I agree and was clear and concise. Thanks for this.

I’d be fuming if he told my child off, if he’s got a willy he’s a man.

I really don't care about M(i)x Surname.

I don't see it in anyway different to Mr, Miss, Ms. Even Rev etc.

But in the end this isn't what this is about.

It is about a child being told off because they are correct.

The teacher in question may not like it but they are there to teach and that means that the children come before their ideals and beliefs.

And if one of your beliefs is to teach children gendered stereotypes then you should not be in the classroom.

There's a bit of a status gap between 'sir' which is both an inherited/awarded title and a reflection of rank/grade/position bla bla bla, and 'miss' which is a young girl, an unmarried woman.

(I once trained an ex police officer in a different role who said he had to fight down the urge to address me as ma'am.)

9 year old child uses his eyes and correctly identifies an adult male and he is told off and adult male thinks that's OK. What world are we living in. Make this madness stop.

Female nurse feels uncomfortable changing in front of adult male in boxers who calls himself Rose and she's in the wrong. Adult male smirks at her. Make this stop.

It's all wrong. When does correctly noticing what evoluhas taught us become wrong. It's controlled abuse.

We tolerate narcissistic behaviour when the person says they are trans or non binary, that is wrong.