9 yr old told off for calling non-binary teacher Sir

[Nowherecitizen]

My friend’s son was told off by a teacher at his school for referring to them as ‘Sir’. The teacher is male but identifies as non-binary.

Their title is Mx which the children are aware of. But the little boy simply looked at an adult who is visibly male and used the term Sir.

I have seen this teacher and they are 'masculine' looking but will sometimes wear a skirt and heels.

Friend’s DS felt bad and can’t recall exactly what was said to them but said the teacher was ‘very cross’.

AIBU to think this was mishandled? Surely the child should be reminded gently of the preferred identity of this adult but should not face a telling off?

What is the non-binary version of Sir anyway?

Keeping Children Safe in Education, p12, definition of emotional abuse, bolding mine.

Emotional abuse: the persistent emotional maltreatment of a child such as to cause severe and adverse effects on the child’s emotional development. It may involve conveying to a child that they are worthless or unloved, inadequate, or valued only insofar as they meet the needs of another person. It may include not giving the child opportunities to express their views, deliberately silencing them or ‘making fun’ of what they say or how they communicate. It may feature age or developmentally inappropriate expectations being imposed on children. These may include interactions that are beyond a child’s developmental capability as well as overprotection and limitation of exploration and learning or preventing the child from participating in normal social interaction.

The power balance is all one way. Humans see sex. He was being respectful and using standard language and it is highly inappropriate the school is making an issue of this. As previously mentioned, teachers get called all sorts and let it go because they're there to do a job and to put the wellbeing of the children first, not have their feelings validated and cause drama about their personal identity.

And also, what if the child is 'gender critical'? Those are protected beliefs. Compelled language and belief about something that makes as little sense as gender ideology in a school setting over a period of time is emotional abuse IMO. Children don't have any power in this situation.

Thank you and i am more than delighted to accept the award. I shall display it with pride.

All the arguments against Mx, not least the where are we going to draw the line one, were used 40+ years ago when Ms bean to see widespread usage.

Not sure I'd want to die in a ditch defending it but it fulfils a purpose.

The problem with your argument in my view is that you start from the point of view it’s a mental illness - which I don’t agree with. Where do we stop? We don’t stop we continue forward that’s my point. We find a way to make women feel safe and trans feel safe. There is no stopping. As long as there are humans we will have to continue to adapt to new challenges and our job is to try to make groups that are more at risk safer.

My mother taught 6-yr-olds and they occasionally got mixed up - they called her mum or mummy.
I don’t think she even bothered to correct them if it was an afterthought.

OK, so, assuming this incident went as the OP tells it, if a child mistakenly says 'Sir' to a teacher who is male but who wishes to be seen as non-binary, what should happen?

May I ask what they're suppose to call him if not Sir or Miss? Hey you?

Haven't RTFT.

Anyone going into teaching needs to be clearly told that it isn't up to children to affirm their identity. Children will call you Miss when youve been married for 30 years, they will sometimes say Miss when they mean Sir. The appropriate thing to do is either let it go or laugh.

And if you really really really want children to accept you as a woman sometimes and a man sometimes, and get the terms of address right each time too, you need to grow up. Children arent there to stroke your ego. You're there to keep an orderly classroom and to teach them, not have your identity affirmed by compelling the speech of children.

This is my question too! I suspect it should’ve been M(I)X?

Some years back, after a particular Matt Smith 'Doctor Who' episode aired, one of the boys in my S1/Y8 class announced that he wanted to be known as Stormageddon.

"Fair enough!" I said.

A fortnight later, he was begging me to use his real name. "But you asked me to..." I pointed out.

"Yes, but I didn't think that you would do it!"

You will never make women safer if you indulge any belief from a man that they are actually a woman.

If you cannot respect women's material reality, you have completely missed the point of how they are oppressed by society.

And you side stepped the point. If we should allow men to pretend they're women so they feel 'at peace', should we do exactly the same thing for white people who identify as African American? Or able bodied people who identify as disabled?

The teacher should tell the child what they would like to be called. As a parent you are within your right to say - I don’t agree with this non binary idea. The child should not be disciplined - not because of the name they called the teacher but because they are 9. I find it hard to believe if it happened that it was malicious.

You are awful!

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

I've done a bit of supply work in schools where pupils just say "Teacher!" when they don't know the name of a member of staff. It works just as well.

You don't get to dictate how others see you, no one has that right.

👏🏻👏🏻

I don’t think I have side stepped the point at all - and I don’t think white that identify as African American or able bodied people who identify as disabled are compatible arguments in my opinion.

I accept women’s material reality as you put it. And I also don’t believe that we can’t make women safe whilst allowing for trans to just exist.
I think it’s safe to say that you and I will never see eye to eye and leave it at that. However I would like to point out that this is the first time in this forum that I have experienced an opposite argument that has been kept respectful - so far that alone I thank you.

Given what I've seen whilst on supply, I'd say that it possibly did happen.

Sure of course it won’t change your opinion of them that’s clear.

It’s all attention seeking cobblers - if the teacher is a man, then pupils, especially 9 year olds, should address him as ‘sir’ 🙄

I think it’s probably best that is adopted as the norm now. That way the self-indulgent and self-obsessed can get their validation fix outside school hours.

Well thanks for that.

But I'm curious about this ...

I don’t think I have side stepped the point at all - and I don’t think white that identify as African American or able bodied people who identify as disabled are compatible arguments in my opinion.

Why not? It's exactly same principle, isn't it. There are people who are materially, physically, demonstrably one thing, but feel they should be treated as something because that's their identity.

Why is that different?

This. To expect a nine year old to understand this bollocks is what’s unreasonable. Fantasy dressed up as reality has no place in the classroom.

Put up with? The teacher is a man, calling him ‘sir’ is correct.
The world has gone utterly bonkers