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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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6
SidewaysOtter · 11/05/2025 17:53

steff13 · 11/05/2025 16:46

The thing that is galling to me, I think more even than them refusing to remove the nurse, is the nurse's behavior. And let me clarify that: this person, regardless of sex, is a healthcare provider. As such, one would think that their personal feelings would come second to the comfort of their patient

I'm an administrative law judge. I conduct public assistance appeal hearings, and those hearings are assigned to me at random every week by a scheduling system. As you might imagine, there are people who request multiple hearings and so I sometimes have hearings with people that I have seen before. If I logged into the hearing (in Teams), and the Appellant said they didn't want me as their hearing officer due to past experience, I would reschedule to hearing.

I perform my job to a very high standard. I do not let prior interaction with someone color the way that I rule in my hearings or the way that I treat them during the hearing. So I could choose to be offended, but I wouldn't. Or even if I were, I would understand that the most important thing is that the appellant needs to feel as though they were being treated fairly. Regardless of my personal feelings. So it's hard for me to understand why this person doesn't treat their patients in the same way.

The very fact that the likes of “Rose” expect their wants and desires to be put ahead of women’s feelings, fears or comfort demonstrates exactly a) why women need single sex spaces in the first place and b) that the likes of “Rose” should be kept out of them (along with all the other men).

steff13 · 11/05/2025 17:54

HermioneWeasley · 11/05/2025 17:26

The bit about the smirk really stuck with me - all women know the smirk. The smirk that says “I’m getting off on this and there’s nothing you can do about it”

Her story is horrifying but I’m so grateful to Karen and the others for speaking up. This is the reality of “trans rights” - a recent photo of “rose”

So the only thing this person has done to live as a woman is ask to be called by a traditionally female name and change his pronouns to she/her?

CoffeecakeSuncream · 11/05/2025 17:59

steff13 · 11/05/2025 17:54

So the only thing this person has done to live as a woman is ask to be called by a traditionally female name and change his pronouns to she/her?

It's sickening isn't it, this is all men have to do. They're giving predators a golden ticket, and they smirk while they use it.

EasternStandard · 11/05/2025 18:00

HermioneWeasley · 11/05/2025 17:26

The bit about the smirk really stuck with me - all women know the smirk. The smirk that says “I’m getting off on this and there’s nothing you can do about it”

Her story is horrifying but I’m so grateful to Karen and the others for speaking up. This is the reality of “trans rights” - a recent photo of “rose”

I’d like the politicians who created the GRA to answer to this.

MinnieCauldwell · 11/05/2025 18:02

Ramblingnamechanger · 11/05/2025 15:02

Where?

It's in the Naughty Corner otherwise known as Feminism, we have been aware of many cases like this for years, it's coming to,light since the Supreme Cout ruling, it was difficult to discuss previous to the ruling.

Merrilydancing · 11/05/2025 18:07

I’m interested in hearing from the 5% who thinks the OP is being unreasonable and why as I can’t see it.

CoffeecakeSuncream · 11/05/2025 18:09

Merrilydancing · 11/05/2025 18:07

I’m interested in hearing from the 5% who thinks the OP is being unreasonable and why as I can’t see it.

Probably "Rose", or similar.

WallaceinAnderland · 11/05/2025 18:11

MinnieCauldwell · 11/05/2025 18:02

It's in the Naughty Corner otherwise known as Feminism, we have been aware of many cases like this for years, it's coming to,light since the Supreme Cout ruling, it was difficult to discuss previous to the ruling.

OP specifically said she was putting it in AIBU so people who may not be aware of this can see what has been going on.

From OP - 'Borrowed from FWR as think this is something we should all know about'

TheKeatingFive · 11/05/2025 18:11

I hope people are starting to see this horrific situation for what it is.

Or does objecting to this make us all 'bigots'?

MinnieCauldwell · 11/05/2025 18:16

WallaceinAnderland · 11/05/2025 18:11

OP specifically said she was putting it in AIBU so people who may not be aware of this can see what has been going on.

From OP - 'Borrowed from FWR as think this is something we should all know about'

Oh well, at least I bumped it!
Consider myself chastised...

TheKeatingFive · 11/05/2025 18:19

Of course this should be in AIBU. Who would argue otherwise?

Ramblingnamechanger · 11/05/2025 18:19

MinnieCauldwell · 11/05/2025 18:02

It's in the Naughty Corner otherwise known as Feminism, we have been aware of many cases like this for years, it's coming to,light since the Supreme Cout ruling, it was difficult to discuss previous to the ruling.

Yes I know…I got it from there! Because I was so upset that it needed a wider audience to see exactly how women are treated.

OP posts:
spannasaurus · 11/05/2025 18:22

TheKeatingFive · 11/05/2025 18:19

Of course this should be in AIBU. Who would argue otherwise?

Possibly the 5%who voted YABU

Has anyone actually said what they think is unreasonable yet? Is it just talking about it that's unreasonable?

WallaceinAnderland · 11/05/2025 18:25

MinnieCauldwell · 11/05/2025 18:16

Oh well, at least I bumped it!
Consider myself chastised...

😂Not you Minnie, more for the poster that asked. You were only trying to be helpful.

Nameychangington · 11/05/2025 18:26

SidewaysOtter · 11/05/2025 17:53

The very fact that the likes of “Rose” expect their wants and desires to be put ahead of women’s feelings, fears or comfort demonstrates exactly a) why women need single sex spaces in the first place and b) that the likes of “Rose” should be kept out of them (along with all the other men).

It's very male-socialised behaviour. Women aren't seen as actual full humans. You can see it in the behaviour of the trans identifying males who expect their wants to be prioritised, and in the behaviour of the institutions which allow it and call us bigots for objecting.

Our rights and our single sex spaces are only ours if no male happens to want them at the moment.

EveryLidlHelper · 11/05/2025 18:27

Please add a trigger warning for that article 😰

HermioneWeasley · 11/05/2025 18:56

steff13 · 11/05/2025 17:54

So the only thing this person has done to live as a woman is ask to be called by a traditionally female name and change his pronouns to she/her?

Yes, all men have to do is utter the magic words “I identify as” and they’ve been given access to women’s facilities, including rape crisis centres, secure psychiatric wards, women’s prisons and refuges.

women had to go to the Supreme Court to get confirmation that this isn’t lawful, but most public bodies THAT WE PAY FOR are ignoring the law and nobody is doing anything to hold them to account,

Ramblingnamechanger · 11/05/2025 19:10

EveryLidlHelper · 11/05/2025 18:27

Please add a trigger warning for that article 😰

How do I do that… ?

OP posts:
ElBandito · 11/05/2025 19:21

Poor Karen, she really has been treated appallingly by the NHS.

unsync · 11/05/2025 19:35

To anyone who is horrified by this and doesn't usually frequent the Feminism boards, this isn't a one off. Have a look at FWR here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights - brace yourself if you have yet to dip a toe in though, some of it, like this one, beggars belief.

Sex & gender discussions - women's rights | Mumsnet | Mumsnet

This is a space for civil and mutually respectful conversation for discussions about sex and gender identity.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights

steff13 · 11/05/2025 19:42

I don't understand feminists who support this. We've made so many strides towards equality, and then men found a loophole to put us back in our place, and some women are falling all over themselves to accept it.

You rarely hear about trans men doing things like this, and I believe it's because trans men were raised and socialized as women. Just like the rest of us, they were raised not to take up space and not to make waves, and so now they are just quietly trying to go about their lives not making all of these demands.

AnSolas · 11/05/2025 19:46

Ramblingnamechanger · 11/05/2025 19:10

How do I do that… ?

@Ramblingnamechanger you can use the report option to report your own post and ask MN to amend the thread name and also the post

crowsfeet57 · 11/05/2025 19:58

Helleofabore · 11/05/2025 16:20

Indeed.

Karen’s situation is complex as it covers both employment AND then as a patient.

And then, if that was all enough to cope with, HR told her that she needed educate herself and said the male nurse, rose, would be happy to lead that re-education !

This NHS trust failed to protect her on numerous fronts.

All to protect a male person with a particular philosophical belief about themselves!

Does he have a particular belief about himself though? Or is he just a scumbag who sees the opportunity to perv on women and make them feel uncomfortable?

SidewaysOtter · 11/05/2025 20:02

crowsfeet57 · 11/05/2025 19:58

Does he have a particular belief about himself though? Or is he just a scumbag who sees the opportunity to perv on women and make them feel uncomfortable?

Both can be equally true!

Helleofabore · 11/05/2025 20:15

crowsfeet57 · 11/05/2025 19:58

Does he have a particular belief about himself though? Or is he just a scumbag who sees the opportunity to perv on women and make them feel uncomfortable?

Whether his declared belief is a true belief or not, it sadly does not matter.

'Acceptance without exception' is actually one of the more accurate mantras that extreme transgender activists and allies have coined. Because it is absolutely true.

There are people who will declare that only people that fit a criteria that they personally support should be considered 'transgender'. We see in these threads constantly. They may take the form of 'only if they have surgery' (which is actually a really cruel opinion to have because it creates a reward of being considered worthy of inclusion if someone undergoes horrific surgeries - who the fuck thinks that that is 'kind'? But they do think it is 'kind' and 'respectful'.).

Or it might take the form of 'they have to have lived for a long enough time as a 'woman' '. When this is a fallacy from the start! The only way for any person on this earth to 'live as a woman' is to have a female body and to have interacted with society while having that female body. Anything else is actually based in pseudo science or philosophical theory, but it completely lacks accuracy and material reality.

Or it might take the form of 'if they make enough effort to pass'. And that is just another cruelty. Because the reality is no male person will pass 100% of the time with 100% of female people. Along the way, there will be female people that will fully understand that the person in front of them is male and should not be included. Yet, there are so many posters who will declare that they cannot tell and they feel that their experience is the norm. When it is not. They obviously lack the ability to accurately interpret a male person's body cues as being male.

And the list goes on as to why 'acceptance without exception' may actually be the only fair and the kindest approach. Meaning, that not one male person should be accepted into female single sex provisions (not just spaces but all single sex provisions). Because it is discriminatory to accept some based on some personally set criteria, or even officially set criteria that uses fallacy to support the critieria, and to reject others.

It is not up to society or 'officials' really to judge which male is more authentic and deserving than others.

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